Single Shot Exemption Explanation/Database Thread

[Cyc Wid It]

There are different issues with the DOJ vs. the BATF.

Yes, this is true - but the DOJ has historically been the sticking point.

[kemasa]

Perhaps, but in this case there is the possible issue regarding manufacturing, which is a BATF issue. As I was told, the BATF could care less about the SSE and the certified list, but they have an issue regarding modification of firearms which would be considered manufacturing. Based on my discussion, it is not that they are against it, just that it has to be done according to the requirements.

[LBDamned]

Tax dollars hard at work

[sully007]

Gene, any input?

[DVSmith]

Yes, this is true - but the DOJ has historically been the sticking point.

I would be curious as to why? As BATF issues FFL's, wouldn't they be the ones to provide guidance to their licensees? Does anyone have a memo from BATF outlining the conversion process as well as converting it back? Are there other transfer restrictions once you have un-converted (not sure that is a word, but you get the point) it?

I would imagine that BATF couldn't care less about California's safe gun roster, so this should be a pretty mundane issue to them.

[kemasa]

The BATF has provided guidance with respect to what is manufacturing. I have seen some FAQs as an example.

[DVSmith]

The BATF has provided guidance with respect to what is manufacturing. I have seen some FAQs as an example.

That is why I asked the question if someone has a specific memo from BATF because I am pretty clear that if you alter or assemble firearms as a regular course of trade for the purpose of sale or distribution, you are manufacturing. You need a 07 license, and you need to mark the firearms.

So I am having a hard time understanding how a singe shot conversion by someone selling a firearm does not fall into the category of "alter or assemble firearms as a regular course of trade for the purpose of sale or distribution"?

I don't think I would, as an FFL, do that work without a pretty clear statement from the BATF. Just me I guess. I know some guys like hanging out there a ways, so I guess that is their option.

[Cyc Wid It]

By that logic, then an 07 FFL would be required for adding bullet buttons to black rifles too.

Bill has previously stated:
We've also now moved to NOT insist an FFL07 is required for such "drop-in" conversions, if the conversion is essentially akin to 'cleaning breakdown' and there's no machining, etc. on the handgun itself and a replacement extended bbl is used, things are fine. 12133PC Roster exemptions subtract these guns out from the whole "chapter" of unsafe handgun laws in 12125PC et seq. [By contrast, an FFL07 *would* generally be required if handguns are being built up from a frame, along with excise tax matters, etc. Modifying a handgun by welding (and then unwelding afterward) the original barrel may cross into 07 territory as well - so having an inventory of drop-in long bbls is helpful.

[DVSmith]

By that logic, then an 07 FFL would be required for adding bullet buttons to black rifles too.

Bill has previously stated:
We've also now moved to NOT insist an FFL07 is required for such "drop-in" conversions, if the conversion is essentially akin to 'cleaning breakdown' and there's no machining, etc. on the handgun itself and a replacement extended bbl is used, things are fine. 12133PC Roster exemptions subtract these guns out from the whole "chapter" of unsafe handgun laws in 12125PC et seq. [By contrast, an FFL07 *would* generally be required if handguns are being built up from a frame, along with excise tax matters, etc. Modifying a handgun by welding (and then unwelding afterward) the original barrel may cross into 07 territory as well - so having an inventory of drop-in long bbls is helpful.

See, this is where it gets messy, from the BATF FAQ:

Q: A gunsmith buys government model pistols and installs "drop-in" precision trigger parts or other "drop-in parts" for the purpose of resale.

A: This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms, as the gunsmith is purchasing the firearms, modifying the firearms and selling them. The gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

Q: A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles, bends the bolts to accept a scope, and then drills the receivers for a scope base. The gunsmith offers these firearms for sale.

A: This would be considered the manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

Q: A gunsmith buys surplus military rifles or pistols and removes the stocks, adds new stocks or pistol grips, cleans the firearms, then sends the firearms to a separate contractor for bluing. These firearms are then sold to the public.

A: This would be considered manufacturing of firearms and the gunsmith should be licensed as a manufacturer.

Q: A company purchases surplus firearms, cleans the firearms then offers them for sale to the public.

The company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

You will notice that cleaning a firearm is not manufacturing in the examples above, but putting "drop-in" parts is. A single shot conversion sure seems to fit the "drop-in" description. That is why the declaration here that only an 01 is needed confuses me.

[Cyc Wid It]

Hrmmm then I think just about every black rifle shop that isn't an 07 is boned? I mean hand guards are "drop in parts" and so are rails and scope mounts...

[DVSmith]

Hrmmm then I think just about every black rifle shop that isn't an 07 is boned? I mean hand guards are "drop in parts" and so are rails and scope mounts...

Not my words, I am just posting what is on their website. Single-Shot sure seems to go beyond cleaning though.

Again, that is why I am curious if there is a referenceable BATF memo. I would think any 01 would want that before going down this road.

[Cyc Wid It]

Change log: Addax Tactical is beginning to do their own SSE conversions. Gen 4 Glock 17's so far, with 1911's on the way.

[glockwise2000]

See, this is where it gets messy, from the BATF FAQ:



You will notice that cleaning a firearm is not manufacturing in the examples above, but putting "drop-in" parts is. A single shot conversion sure seems to fit the "drop-in" description. That is why the declaration here that only an 01 is needed confuses me.

I was just looking at this post and it doesn't add-up. The quotes were: A gunsmith buying a gun and modifying and selling it....... etc. My take was the gunsmith was purchasing itself and modifying for profit. Then that would require, I believe, an 07FFL. It didn't say another FFL or an individual dropping off an HG to modify or convert.

If an individual bought the HG and an 01FFL just drop-off parts, then that has a different definition and doesn't have the same definition as a gunsmith making profit by modifying, let say an off-roster HG.

[mrdd]

I was just saw this on CalCCW forum and they seem to be describing a different process.
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/general...s-related.html

There seems to be some misinformation in that thread about making your own firearms. CCWInstructor states that if you make it yourself, you can never sell it. That seems to be incorrect. My understanding is that you cannot make it to sell it, but there is no prohibition against selling it later after you have used it yourself.

http://www.calccw.com/Forums/general-ccw-discussion/20718-single-shot-exemptions-problems-related-2.html#post275031

[firebert]

Is there a list of internet gun retailers who are willing to ship off-roster pistols to CA FFL to SSE? I know there are a list of retailer who won't do it.