2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[Siris]

I really want an AR pistol, but am waiting to see what happens with the laws this year. Does anyone have recommendations for one which is available in our state? I have been drooling over this:

[GunnEnvy]

I really want an AR pistol, but am waiting to see what happens with the laws this year. Does anyone have recommendations for one which is available in our state? I have been drooling over this:

None are available in our state of CA. We can only buy on the roster guns unless you are exempt. You have to build one from an 80% lower and this thread covers the legalities.

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[mitbirdman]

I, too, would like further discussion of this point. I read PC 29180 and all the other 'ghost gun' laws. IANAL, but it seems pretty clear to me that these laws are all focused on the requirements for 80% lower guns being serialized starting from July 1, 2018. How does this do anything to change SSE2 pistols being converted into semi-auto?

As long as I get my lower serialized correctly before July 1, 2018 and follow all the great advice from people like Quiet above to construct a single shot pistol first, how am I violating PC 29180 (or any other laws)?

[Laurence927]

So, reading through all of these AR Pistol 2017 thread, I'm still confused.

I have a stripped AR Pistol Lower, REGISTERED as a Pistol, not rifle, which I acquired through PPT. Am I still able to build a semi-auto pistol with an ARMagLock? Most of this thread seems to be specific for building off of 80% lowers, which I do not have.

Following the CA Handgun Flowchart, #15 - "Does the firearm have a detachable magazine?" - Maglocked, does it now become Legal? So confused.

[Gun Nerd]

tagged

[Cokebottle]

So, reading through all of these AR Pistol 2017 thread, I'm still confused.

I have a stripped AR Pistol Lower, REGISTERED as a Pistol, not rifle, which I acquired through PPT. Am I still able to build a semi-auto pistol with an ARMagLock? Most of this thread seems to be specific for building off of 80% lowers, which I do not have.

Following the CA Handgun Flowchart, #15 - "Does the firearm have a detachable magazine?" - Maglocked, does it now become Legal? So confused.

There are two issues.

One is the AW aspect.
You may not build an AR pattern pistol that does not have a fixed magazine.

Whether the ARMaglock satisfies the law is up for debate. There are other options that are legal.

The 2nd issue is the roster and that it is illegal to build an "unsafe" handgun.
You can not legally simply assemble the lower (even with a fixed mag) and attach a semiautomatic upper to it.
Many believe that even if you complete the build in a manner that is compliant with the current SSE laws, you still can't later convert it to semi-automatic.

[Laurence927]

There are two issues.

One is the AW aspect.
You may not build an AR pattern pistol that does not have a fixed magazine.

Whether the ARMaglock satisfies the law is up for debate. There are other options that are legal.

The 2nd issue is the roster and that it is illegal to build an "unsafe" handgun.
You can not legally simply assemble the lower (even with a fixed mag) and attach a semiautomatic upper to it.
Many believe that even if you complete the build in a manner that is compliant with the current SSE laws, you still can't later convert it to semi-automatic.

Thanks for your reply. This is such a grey area to me, because my pistol was "manufactured" and registered as a single shot pistol under SSE(1) - me making it semi automatic is technically "converting" it not "manufacturing" an unsafe handgun, is it not?

[Cokebottle]

Thanks for your reply. This is such a grey area to me, because my pistol was "manufactured" and registered as a single shot pistol under SSE(1) - me making it semi automatic is technically "converting" it not "manufacturing" an unsafe handgun, is it not?

The gray area comes in that it is now a stripped lower.
You could *possibly* reassemble it into a configuration that it existed in at some time prior to 2017 and then register it as an AW (retaining the bullet button ), but since the legal definition of "manufacture" was changed last year to include "assembling parts" it *could* be illegal to assemble it today into any form that is not SSEv2 compliant.

Of course, SSEv2 would avoid AW issues because it would not be semiautomatic.

[jlist]

...but since the legal definition of "manufacture" was changed last year to include "assembling parts" it *could* be illegal to assemble it today into any form that is not SSEv2 compliant.

Could you elaborate on changes related to "assembling parts"? And I suppose it won't affect AR pistols already assembled prior to 2017?

[Quiet]

Could you elaborate on changes related to "assembling parts"? And I suppose it won't affect AR pistols already assembled prior to 2017?

Starting 01-01-2017, "assembling parts" can now be considered "manufacturing" and it can be argued that by "assembling parts" onto an exempt (SAE, SSE2) pistol will cause it to be "manufactured" into a unsafe handgun.

Basically...
Before 01-01-2015 = legal to make SSE pistol into semi-auto pistol.
After 12-31-2014 = unknown (gray) if it is legal to make SSE2 pistol into semi-auto pistol. (due to the single-shot pistol exemption being changed to exclude semi-auto)
After 12-31-2016 = may be illegal to make SSE2 pistol into semi-auto pistol. (due to definition change of what constitues "manufacturing")

Clarity will not be forth coming until CA DOJ releases regulations governing "home built firearms" and lawyers for both sides analyze it.

Until then, it is up to you and your lawyers comfort level on how to proceed.

[jlist]

Thanks a lot Quiet. Your explanation is clear. (The law isn't, unfortunately.)

[tokyodrftr]

I'm over all the drama trying to be legal. I'm converting all my pistols to featureless carbines. Adding 9" suppressor (non-functioning) and fixed stock


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[Laurence927]

Starting 01-01-2017, "assembling parts" can now be considered "manufacturing" and it can be argued that by "assembling parts" onto an exempt (SAE, SSE2) pistol will cause it to be "manufactured" into a unsafe handgun.

Basically...
Before 01-01-2015 = legal to make SSE pistol into semi-auto pistol.
After 12-31-2014 = unknown (gray) if it is legal to make SSE2 pistol into semi-auto pistol. (due to the single-shot pistol exemption being changed to exclude semi-auto)
After 12-31-2016 = may be illegal to make SSE2 pistol into semi-auto pistol. (due to definition change of what constitues "manufacturing")

Clarity will not be forth coming until CA DOJ releases regulations governing "home built firearms" and lawyers for both sides analyze it.

Until then, it is up to you and your lawyers comfort level on how to proceed.

Thanks for your clear response. It's so hard to do anything in CA, just to build something fun for shooting. I think I'm better off leaving it disassembled and seeing what happens in the next coming months.

[jlist]

Adding 9" suppressor (non-functioning) and fixed stock

I suppose the faux can needs to be pinned and welded to be counted for barrel length?

[Maximus924]

I'm over all the drama trying to be legal. I'm converting all my pistols to featureless carbines. Adding 9" suppressor (non-functioning) and fixed stock


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I suppose the faux can needs to be pinned and welded to be counted for barrel length?

yes. The first photo is SBR, which in California is illegal. faux suppressors (or any barrel extension for that matter) need to be permanently affixed to be considered part of the barrel length...
The second photo, assuming the faux suppressor is just threaded on and not pinned or welded, is STILL an SBR.