2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[flavor]

So I can use the Shockwave Blade to make it OAL > 26" to use a VFG? Or does the Blade have to be permanent to count for OAL. Do I have to do anything or register it once it becomes Title 1 Other?

[Cokebottle]

So I can use the Shockwave Blade to make it OAL > 26" to use a VFG? Or does the Blade have to be permanent to count for OAL. Do I have to do anything or register it once it becomes Title 1 Other?

NFA compliance requires permanence, however, NFA measures longest configuration (such as an underfolder is measured open)
California considers shortest configuration, but California does not have an AOW equivalent, so in my not-to-be-considered-legal-advice opinion, you would be legal Federally as long as the Blade is 26" in one or more positions.

The secondary concern is California's opinion of the Blade.

BATFE says (this week) that you can shoulder a Sig Brace.
DOJ has not issued an opinion, and does not always agree with BATFE (see above).

Shouldering a blade would likely put you into California territory of:
1 - SBR if the barrel is under 16"
2 - AW if DOJ considers the Blade to be a "shoulder stock" and the OAL is under 30"

[flavor]

Ok to clear things up, CA law states that you can have a VFG on a pistol if there is a non detachable mag.

Fed law states that in order to have a VFG on a pistol, the OAL length has to be over 26". The way to do that is to "permanently" fix my blade to make the pistol meet >26".

Do the Feds have anything that says the blade must be permanently attached? If so, what method is legal? Or does the screw that come with the blade is good enough for them?

[Cokebottle]

Ok to clear things up, CA law states that you can have a VFG on a pistol if there is a non detachable mag.

Fed law states that in order to have a VFG on a pistol, the OAL length has to be over 26". The way to do that is to "permanently" fix my blade to make the pistol meet >26".

Do the Feds have anything that says the blade must be permanently attached? If so, what method is legal? Or does the screw that come with the blade is good enough for them?

Feds measure OAL differently.

California measures minimum configuration.
Feds measure maximum configuration.
If there is *a* position for the blade that is 26", it is legal federally.

Feds only require permanence for barrel length on a rifle/shotgun to avoid SBR/SBS.

[Calin15]

So this thread and others is almost all about 80%. If I ppt an AR Pistol lower this year. Am I allowed to build it as a semi automatic AR Pistol?

My understanding is yes because I'm not building the registered part (receiver). Similarly to building up a Glock using Zev parts but a registered Glock frame.

[Quiet]

So this thread and others is almost all about 80%. If I ppt an AR Pistol lower this year. Am I allowed to build it as a semi automatic AR Pistol?

My understanding is yes because I'm not building the registered part (receiver). Similarly to building up a Glock using Zev parts but a registered Glock frame.

Any handgun made in CA needs to comply with CA unsafe handgun laws, CA unconventional pistol laws, CA zip gun laws, CA SBR/SBS laws, CA assault weapons laws, and CA "home built firearm" laws.

[flavor]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

If you PPT a pistol lower that has proof it is actually dros'd as a pistol, then yes it can be semi auto. But the only way to keep it legal is to put on the new bullet button such as Armaglock which complies with the new 2017 non detachable magazine, break action law.

[Cokebottle]

If you PPT a pistol lower that has proof it is actually dros'd as a pistol, then yes it can be semi auto. But the only way to keep it legal is to put on the new bullet button such as Armaglock which complies with the new 2017 non detachable magazine, break action law.

Negative Ghostrider.

You may PPT a *completed* semi-automatic, but buying the bare lower and completing a semiauto build would be legally no different from completing a semi-auto build from an 80%.

It must be completed as a break-top bolt action single shot.

Whether it is THEN legal to convert it into a semi-auto is still up for question. There are reasonable arguments both ways, but it is clear that you can not complete the initial assembly as a semi-automatic.

[flavor]

I believe he is talking about PPT'ing a bare lower receiver from someone who already dros'd it as a pistol. Bare lower can be dros'd as a pistol.

If it gets rejected because the person he is buying from lied to him saying its a pistol receiver but turns out to be a rifle lower that becomes a different story. That is why a buyer and dealer would ask the seller if he has proof so that no one would deal with any bs.

It doesnt need to be a complete lower. A lower is 100% not 80%. So its like any other handgun you dros. The lower acts like a handgun frame. Both are considered firearms.

Places like Riflegear and Crosshair Tactical both confirmed that you can do it and are willing to do it for me.

You can then build it into a "CA Complaint" AR15 pistol which includes the break action non detachable magazine.

Now, if he was talking about 80%, thats a different story as well. It is in the grey area that no one wants to be a test case.

[Cokebottle]

You are confusing "handgun" with "roster exempt"

A bare lower is not roster exempt.

It *is* a firearm, unlike an 80%.

Yes, the bare lower can be transferred PPT, and if DROS'd as a "pistol" would be legal to build as a pistol, but it must be built in a roster-exempt format.

It can not legally be built directly into a semi-automatic build, and it MAY not be legal to later convert it... but either way, it MUST be originally assembled into a roster-exempt form.

Riflegear and Crosshair Tactical WILL NOT assemble a functioning AR pistol onto your bare lower.

There is no grey area in this.
It is NOT legal.

[flavor]

From what I understand, if you manufacture an 80%, it will have to be roster exempt via 0 mag sled single shot or bolt action.

Since the receiver was "already manufactured" you can build it into however you want. So from what I understand, ppt lower = handgun. Build 80% = has to be roster exempt.

[Marteen]

I tend to agree with Flavor. The firearm is the registered part in every case. I've seen people dros a p320 fcu and then put a sig x change kit on it. Or purchase a Glock registered lower and then put a Glock upper on it.

Yea I know people will say, just because you see people do it doesn't make it ok.

Well I think it goes back to the basics. To the government what is considered the firearm. My understanding is the registered part is the gun.


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[R2RO]

None are available in our state of CA. We can only buy on the roster guns unless you are exempt. You have to build one from an 80% lower and this thread covers the legalities.

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Techincally their are two manufactures left that I know of, who still make these AR Pistols.

Gunfighter Tactical in San Diego, CA
and
Ledesma Arms in Chino Hills, CA.

Both are type 07 FFL's that still make Single Shot AR pistols. Here's a video of them testing out a Ledesma Arms Model P as a single shot fixed magazine with 0 round sled, and then converting it to a top load 10 once it is registered to you.

https://youtu.be/RNLKvrrCkR0

[flavor]

This is how I got my AR pistol. Some guy selling entire AR pistol. I asked if he is willing to sell just his stripped lower receiver and he agreed. Asked the guy if he had proof if it was a pistol. He said he didnt and will go get a copy of where he bought it. He got proof, serial number matched stating it was dros'd and registered as a pistol.

Many places like Turners, Ammo Bros, Cap Tactical not willing to do it due to policy. Called Riflegear and Crosshair Tactical and they said they will dros the stripped pistol lower no problem. Both stores said just make sure theres no old bullet button and no pistol grip on there prior to ppt. That was the only thing they told me.

Met up at Crosshair cause RG too far. During dros, I made sure they put "Handgun" and "Semi-Automatic" which they did. I was afraid the guy will dros is as a rifle you would be f**ked. After 10 day wait, got my lower and no issues.

So its dros'd as a handgun and semi-auto. It is on my dros paper. I made copies and carry it around if I go shoot with it just in case anyone decides to question me.

Since some places manufactured single shot ar pistols, you are not the manufacturer, so you can convert it to semi auto. I am not the manufacturer of my stripped lower so I can make it semiauto.

Can someone say you assembled, built, etc. into an "unsafe handgun". Who knows. But they cant say you manufactured it.

Besides, its 10 rounds, non removeable mag, its break action. So you did not build/assemble an assault weapon. Maybe just into an "unsafe". But I believe ppt covers exempt from "unsafe". Since you can legally ppt an off roster handgun which is already considered "unsafe" because it doesnt have any california chamber indicator, mag disconnect, etc.

[MolonLabe1]

Build an 80 lower with an ARMAGLOCK. How will anyone know when you built it, and or if it was originally a single shot conversion?


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