2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[Cokebottle]

Build an 80 lower with an ARMAGLOCK. How will anyone know when you built it, and or if it was originally a single shot conversion?

Discussion and recommendation of ways to get away with violating the law is prohibited on Calguns.

Discussion must center on the law and what is and is not legal.

It is up to the individual person what risk they are willing to take in violating the law.

ASSEMBLING a manufactured lower into a semi-automatic pistol is illegal in California.

There is a period at the end of that statement.
User Quiet has posted the law.
Whether it began as an 80% or as a DROS'd "pistol" lower is irrelevant.

[flavor]

Quiet can you chime in? I read that you were referring "assembling" a SSE2, either bought as SSE2 or 80% (not an already manufactured receiver) into semi auto could be "manufacturing" an unsafe handgun. My lower receiver was not a SSE2/80%. It is registered as semi auto on my paperwork. Your thoughts?

[Marteen]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

Wait. So based on what Cokebottle is saying. I can't assemble a Glock upper and stick it on a registered pistol Glock lower? So no more caliber changes. What about a none polygonal rifled barrel reassembled into the upper and assembled on a registered Glock pistol lower. Is that illegal too?

I think this discussion is similar to what happened to the pistol brace a bunch of people ask and speculate and then a dumb decision is passed and then changed.

I think someone said it best. No one knows exactly. So I go to the basics. A firearm is the registered part. If machine a lower or machine two halves and bolt them together "assemble" that is might be illegal.

A registered lower is the gun.


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[Marteen]

After reading what you wrote and what coke bottle wrote I understand. Thanks for clarification. I'll go back and buy more ammo now.


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[flavor]

Who me? Youre welcome. Just MY understanding of the law. IANAL. As far as cokebottle, I can understand his point of view as well. Thank you for your input.

[MolonLabe1]

Discussion and recommendation of ways to get away with violating the law is prohibited on Calguns.

Discussion must center on the law and what is and is not legal.

It is up to the individual person what risk they are willing to take in violating the law.

ASSEMBLING a manufactured lower into a semi-automatic pistol is illegal in California.

There is a period at the end of that statement.
User Quiet has posted the law.
Whether it began as an 80% or as a DROS'd "pistol" lower is irrelevant.

Sorry, I posted that while being very tired. Should have read "If built with"... I was not intending to advocate skirting the law or making illegal guns/s. My point was.... how will the government know when a person built it, or how it was originally built? From my understanding, at least right now, there is no past requirement to show proof of SS1 on and 80% build... is there? As Quiet posted, a SS1 80 built prior to 1/1/15 can be converted to semi, so that's what I was basing my thought off of. Again , sorry for the confusion.


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[flavor]

People who manufactured 80% prior to 1/1/15 who have proof and documentation will be able to convert to semi auto. Anything built post 1/1/15 you will have to follow the new law and you might no longer be able to convert it to semi auto. Its still in the gray area like Quiet said. You want to be a test case? Thats up to you and your comfort level. Prosecutor could say you started with an 80% lower and manufactured an unsafe handgun in the end. You willing to deal with all that just for an AR pistol?

[MolonLabe1]

Although I do have proof and documentation prior to 1/1/15 for my stuff, where does it indicate in the penal code or otherwise for those who built their own AR pistol at home from an 80 to actually have such. I do cause I'm overly cautious, but I can't find that text anywhere where one has to keep such. Do you know where to find it?


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[MolonLabe1]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

People who manufactured 80% prior to 1/1/15 who have proof and documentation will be able to convert to semi auto. Anything built post 1/1/15 you will have to follow the new law and you might no longer be able to convert it to semi auto. Its still in the gray area like Quiet said. You want to be a test case? Thats up to you and your comfort level. Prosecutor could say you started with an 80% lower and manufactured an unsafe handgun in the end. You willing to deal with all that just for an AR pistol?

Also... as LEO myself (28 years), I asked that because no way would I take a firearm from an individual based on gray area. Good way to get fired and sued. If a non felon had an AR 80% pistol that was set up with a fixed mag, engraved per the law, and said he built it back in say 2014 as a SS1 and converted it to semi, I cannot take it and let the DA figure it out unless I have probable cause to believe otherwise. Unless you can show me, it is LEO (me if on duty) and the DA who has the burden of proof and can only arrest off probable cause. In this case I do not, but I may change my view if you could point me to where it says anyone who built such a weapon prior to 1/1/15 must keep proof of the SS1 build from and 80%r. Not tying to argue or start crap; just tying to gather info that you may have that I don't.

Side note; I can't wait to retire and leave this commie state ca and all the BS libturd laws


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[flavor]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

Thank you for your service brother. Stay safe out there. Majority of cops prefer citizens to not have guns unless they have some training like us (I have the same feeling. I went through academy but I got injured that prevented me from graduating). Its not in the law, but it would put you at ease like myself. I bought an ar pistol receiver from someone, he had proof that it was dros'd/registered as pistol and when I bought it, the lgs dros'd it as a pistol and semi auto. I built it as a MK18 Mod 0 inspired build with a 10.5 in barrel. Everytime I take it out, I carry the paperwork with me just as a protection. If someone has a problem, I could pull it out and be like "heres my proof".

[flavor]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

My cousins moved to Florida and Texas. The Texans cousins are not really into guns. They are into cars more. The cousins in Florida love the gun laws there. One of them uses an HK45c with a suppressor as home protection (he said he doesnt want to lose his hearing if he needs to shoot inside his house). Where would you move to after you retire?

[MolonLabe1]

2017 AR pistol thread (master)

My cousins moved to Florida and Texas. The Texans cousins are not really into guns. They are into cars more. The cousins in Florida love the gun laws there. One of them uses an HK45c with a suppressor as home protection (he said he doesnt want to lose his hearing if he needs to shoot inside his house). Where would you move to after you retire?

I have land in Utah already, but I'm very interested in Coeur d'alene Idaho or nearby that. Wyo and Montana are also on my radar. Not gonna retire in a blue libturd controlled state that lives by the robinhood or nanny effect.

Back on the gun issue, as a field supervisor for 16 years, I know most beat cops won't have a single clue (which in itself is scary) when it comes to all these new gun laws. They'll be briefed and trained on the simple stuff like AW registration/definition and required markings, but all the SS1 vs SS2 and all the dates associated with those rules and what you can and cannot do will most likely not be retained or even enforced by first responders of this nature. I see at most, if there is suspicion of illegal activity, a referral to the ATF could be in order. Or if the agency has a special team that specializes in this area, they could be summoned to inquire. Unless a contact occurs in a rural area where LE isn't busy (many calls pending) a LEO isn't going to waste time with on a fishing expedition in trying to determine the legality of a firearm if the subject
- is not a felon and has clean record
- isn't up to nefarious activity
- had the required markings on weapon
- registered it properly if serialized
- has a weapon that isn't illegal on face value such as being a SBR, fully auto, or having any other illegal item on it such as a suppressor, double sided bayonet, etc.
- isn't an a-hole...

There is the letter of the law and spirit of the law. The "letter" is reserved for a-holes. So, if I contacted a person that fit the above criteria in possession of an AR pistol with a fixed mag, that had the min barrel and overall length, I'd be on my way to my next call.

My hope is somehow with our new Supreme Court, all these BS gun grabber laws are deemed unconstitutional and overturned. Until then, all we can do is do is prepare for the worse, hope for the best, and pray for good to triumph this evil being puked out Sacramento.



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[flavor]

Adam henry's you have to deal with on the street as well as Sacramento...just two more years bud!

[Cokebottle]

Wait. So based on what Cokebottle is saying. I can't assemble a Glock upper and stick it on a registered pistol Glock lower? So no more caliber changes. What about a none polygonal rifled barrel reassembled into the upper and assembled on a registered Glock pistol lower. Is that illegal too?

I think this discussion is similar to what happened to the pistol brace a bunch of people ask and speculate and then a dumb decision is passed and then changed.

I think someone said it best. No one knows exactly. So I go to the basics. A firearm is the registered part. If machine a lower or machine two halves and bolt them together "assemble" that is might be illegal.

A registered lower is the gun.

Parts changes would not be a problem, nor would caliber changes, as you are not changing the function.

The problem is that the current law defined "manufacturing" to include "assembly of parts".
Parts replacement of "like for like" components would be legally defensible in court.
Conversion from bolt action single shot to 10-shot semi-automatic would be a more difficult argument.

[flavor]

Cokebottle, I think you are confused what Quiet was referring to when he said "manufacturing" to include "assembly of parts". He was just referring to 80%/SSE2 converting to semi auto. Cause what you are saying is that if I buy only a Glock frame and take it home, put a slide on there, now I made an unsafe handgun? Does not make sense. If Quiet could clarify would be great.