2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[wdnguyen428]

Third issue... (required markings)



In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.



Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.

Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).



Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]

1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*

2) Model

3) Caliber

4) Manufacturer's name*

5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located



Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.

So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.



*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.

FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.

{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}



If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)] Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)][/QUOTE]


Found this site to help with this part serialization of the 80% lower..

https://atomicengraving.com/product-category/gun-parts/ar15-parts/

Has anyone done any transactions with this website?







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[uptown]

First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a 0 round mag/sled that is permanently attached to the firearm or a solid magazine, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
^ For rimfire blowback... install a limiter/black behind the bolt carrier group, in order to prevent it from cycling.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.


Second issue... (conversion from exempt handgun to unsafe handgun)

Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name*
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.
FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]

Would the first and second issue still come into play if it is build with a 80% lower and using a maglock? How would they even go about proving those requirements you listed for DI, piston and blowback? Just wondering.

[Cokebottle]

Would the first and second issue still come into play if it is build with a 80% lower and using a maglock? How would they even go about proving those requirements you listed for DI, piston and blowback? Just wondering.

Maglock is for AW issues.

The roster, which is what prevents the manufacture of a semiautomatic handgun, has nothing to do with AW status.

[MolonLabe1]

Without a fixed mag, no way to make AR pistol featureless, so, maglock does render such a weapon as NOT an AW. These issues noted above are to the "illegal weapon" statute. So.. if a person built an 80% pistol back in 2013 and followed the single shot crap and then converted it before the change, how can it be illegal? How would government prove otherwise? Of course it must be engraved prior to 7-1-18.


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[matt2016]

I just had a thought. How long does voluntary reg for a single-shot pistol take nowadays. Since you need to submit pictures, would it be possible to test the legality of an ARMaglock type device (for any AR to not be an assault weapon) by submitting your registration with a zero-round sled fixed by an ARMaglock device. I mean if it passes registration, then clearly it's a fixed magazine for all purposes is it not?

[Nor*Cal]

I just had a thought. How long does voluntary reg for a single-shot pistol take nowadays. Since you need to submit pictures, would it be possible to test the legality of an ARMaglock type device (for any AR to not be an assault weapon) by submitting your registration with a zero-round sled fixed by an ARMaglock device. I mean if it passes registration, then clearly it's a fixed magazine for all purposes is it not?

You do not need to submit pictures. You may be getting confused with the Assault Weapon Registration regulations that the DOJ withdrew.

The voluntary registration timeline varies. I actually self registered my older 80% AR pistol build last month online and it only took 10 business days. But most seem to report that its been taking 1 to 2 months.

I registered mine as a Semi-Auto and put in the notes field that it was built as a Single Shot in 2013 and then converted to Semi. You can try to register as a Semi-Auto as well and put in the notes field that it's a fixed mag set-up using the ARMaglock.

To be honest, I'm not too sure that they are paying to much attention to these details when someone self registers but I may be wrong. I can see the DOJ using an uneducated (as it pertains to these pistol builds) clerk who is only looking for the required information which would be manufacturer info, caliber, and serial number.

It's worth a try.

[matt2016]

You do not need to submit pictures. You may be getting confused with the Assault Weapon Registration regulations that the DOJ withdrew.



The voluntary registration timeline varies. I actually self registered my older 80% AR pistol build last month online and it only took 10 business days. But most seem to report that its been taking 1 to 2 months.



I registered mine as a Semi-Auto and put in the notes field that it was built as a Single Shot in 2013 and then converted to Semi. You can try to register as a Semi-Auto as well and put in the notes field that it's a fixed mag set-up using the ARMaglock.



To be honest, I'm not too sure that they are paying to much attention to these details when someone self registers but I may be wrong. I can see the DOJ using an uneducated (as it pertains to these pistol builds) clerk who is only looking for the required information which would be manufacturer info, caliber, and serial number.



It's worth a try.

Oh. I thought i remembered reading somewhere on here before of someone being required to take pictures of their gun to register as a pistol


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[uptown]

So as of 2017, can someone still build an AR pistol with an 80% lower and maglock?

[Cokebottle]

So as of 2017, can someone still build an AR pistol with an 80% lower and maglock?

It does not appear so.

The build must be completed in a roster-exempt form, which would be single shot break-top bolt action.
The problem is, the "new" definition of manufacturing appears to include assembly of parts, meaning that after completion, the addition of semi-automatic parts would still be considered "manufacturing", and it is illegal to manufacture an off-roster or non-roster-compliant pistol.

[Battosai1]

So what I getting it you have a giant paper weight AR pistol that is single shot, fixed mag, and no attachments...**** that. I'll never build an AR pistol. Wanted too, but because of the Laws what's the fun. I might attachments well go buy a Remington 700 or a 1911. Jesus Christ california has problems.

[Maximus924]

I just had a thought. How long does voluntary reg for a single-shot pistol take nowadays. Since you need to submit pictures, would it be possible to test the legality of an ARMaglock type device (for any AR to not be an assault weapon) by submitting your registration with a zero-round sled fixed by an ARMaglock device. I mean if it passes registration, then clearly it's a fixed magazine for all purposes is it not?

You do not need to submit pictures. You may be getting confused with the Assault Weapon Registration regulations that the DOJ withdrew.

The voluntary registration timeline varies. I actually self registered my older 80% AR pistol build last month online and it only took 10 business days. But most seem to report that its been taking 1 to 2 months.

I registered mine as a Semi-Auto and put in the notes field that it was built as a Single Shot in 2013 and then converted to Semi. You can try to register as a Semi-Auto as well and put in the notes field that it's a fixed mag set-up using the ARMaglock.

To be honest, I'm not too sure that they are paying to much attention to these details when someone self registers but I may be wrong. I can see the DOJ using an uneducated (as it pertains to these pistol builds) clerk who is only looking for the required information which would be manufacturer info, caliber, and serial number.

It's worth a try.

I also submitted my AR Pistols for volreg in 2017 after I got engraving done to the firearms I have had for years... (also at the same time submitted a featureless rifle)

My pistols had ARMaglock devices, and identified this in the description.

I have my single shot sled mag, but it wasnt pictured. they never asked to see it. I provided three pics (left side full shot, right side full shot and close up of engraving)

I also went with boring layout for engraving as follows:

My first and last name
City, CA
MOD: self made model
CAL: MULTI
self made random serial (all numbers)

Example of what my number looked like:

JOHN DOE
OAKLAND, CA
MOD: AP-15
CAL: MULTI
999001


the only response I got were letters (one for each submitted firearm)
stating they were added to the database and listing my self made serial.

They never questioned my ARMaglock device, but who knows if they will still be allowed in 7 months...

[Cokebottle]

So what I getting it you have a giant paper weight AR pistol that is single shot, fixed mag, and no attachments...**** that. I'll never build an AR pistol. Wanted too, but because of the Laws what's the fun. I might attachments well go buy a Remington 700 or a 1911. Jesus Christ california has problems.

If it's single shot, roster exempt, then it is not semiautomatic with a detachable magazine and you can have all of the attachments you want since AW laws don't apply.

NFA still does though, so no VFG (AOW)

[sbo80]

I also submitted my AR Pistols for volreg

My first and last name
City, CA
MOD: self made model
CAL: MULTI
self made random serial (all numbers)

this also shows that the clerks accepting registrations don't really understand either, as people get differing responses. When I registered my AR pistol as a new resident when I moved here, which has a factory lower, DOJ rejected it for putting "multi" as the caliber, even though that's what's stamped on it. I resubmitted with 5.56 and they took it then. So I would not say a court would have to accept as useful evidence a letter, "DOJ accepted their registration, so it proves all of them with that configuration are legal". Only proves that single person who was accepted might get out of trouble for that one firearm. I've never heard of a DOJ policy that "acceptance of a registration is a defacto declaration of legality". They'll just say they were processing paperwork.

[dat1callidude]

Tag

[Jimi Jah]

Still have mine, always will. With personnal info engraved, it's not something anyone else would want.

I'll shoot the crap out of it until next January and then it will house a Franklin fixed mag. Then it will probably get used more in AZ than here.

I'm going to buy a Sig brace for it now too. It has a Spikes extended buffer tube so it should shoulder well.