why do so many come in here and BASH COPS

[SVT-40]

AaronHorrocks: I'm sorry for the bad incidents you have had with your local P.D.'s.

If your vehicle was hit by gunfire a report should have been taken.

Regarding the thefts you have been a victim of. Again a report should have been taken.

Regarding a "on line" report ( never heard of those) do you know why it was rejected? It could be due to some oversight on your part or computer issue. I don't know.

In the future if you are not happy with the service of your local P.D. you might give the watch sergeant a call. When you talk to him don't have an attitude. Be polite and ask for an explanation. If you can tell the Sgt. that you truly need a report. He may take a personal interest in your plight.

Another thought. Sometimes officers document incidents on "incident reports" or similar means. These "incident reports" are usually used when the offense is minor and there is no suspect or follow up information available.

You might call the P.D's involved in your prior incidents and enquirer if there was a "incident" report or similar documentation. They are usually logged by the date and time of your original phone call to the police.

Don't get bogged down in blaming all LEO's for the faults and mistakes you listed. So I for one again apologize for the lack of good customer service by those members of the departments you named.

[Fire in the Hole]

I don't bash cops here, I put that in the off-topic section!

I've had a Livermore officer perform an illegal search on my property, and cause damage... thus far has been unresolved.

I've had my truck SHOT (at home in Livermore), and the officer that arrived refused to file a report.

My girlfriend and I were out to dinner (in Concord), when the truck was vandalized, and her phone, my camera, and some ammo and tools were stolen. We filed this report online to Concord PD, and it was rejected.

And that has been my experience with local "law enforcement" just over the last couple of years. I'm very unhappy with them, as I could only assume that you too would be if you've gone through the same stuff.

Okay, for starters I don't know the time periods involved here. Some of this may be too stale to get an effective result with. But I'll try to take them one at a time. Remember my rule though. "You own the answer, and never ask a question that you don't want to here the answer to." Having said that; here goes:

Q1: "I've had a Livermore officer perform an illegal search on my property, and cause damage... thus far has been unresolved."
A1: Did the Livermore P.D., City Attorney, and possibly the DA agree with your assertion that it was in fact an 'illegal search?" If so this should expedite your claim. Did you file a Board of Control Claim, seeking reimbursement for the property damage? These typically take up to six months to resolve, as they have to pass through different layers of the system. If you have waited this long without hearing anything, then contact the city councilman that represents your district, and ask him/her to intervene on your behalf. Have you gone through your homeowners insurance? Depending upon your deductable, they can pay to repair the damage, and they can seek reimbursement from the P.D. That way the monkey is off your back. Lastly seek the advice of an attorney.

Q2: "I've had my truck SHOT (at home in Livermore), and the officer that arrived refused to file a report."
A2: What was the Officer's reason? I'm sure you must have asked him at the time. Contrary to popular belief, Officers are not required to take a report if they believe that it is just paper for the sake of paper. LE management is starting to introduce "Solveability Factors" into each case to justify the field officer's report down time. You can always go to the police station and file a "Counter Report" on your own. This is becoming more the norm, with lay-offs, furloughs, and fuel budget cost cutting. When was the last time you heard of an MD making a house call like they use to do?

Q3: "My girlfriend and I were out to dinner (in Concord), when the truck was vandalized, and her phone, my camera, and some ammo and tools were stolen. We filed this report online to Concord PD, and it was rejected."
A3: I've tried to submit such things as purchases on line and if I omitted one required line entry, or didn't use () around my area code, etc., it's been rejected. Did you correctly fillout each line item? Lastly it could have been a server error. Did you get any error code when it was rejected? Try going into the Concord P.D. Station, and fill out a Counter Report.



There ya go.

[TRICKSTER]

That is an additional factor added to the mix. We can throw other factors: Full-auto malfunction, etc. that will create resonable suspicion.

What we're arguing about is your basic encounter at the shooting range.

BTW, the second AW law went into effect in 2001. Are we talking about toddlers here?

Obviously this has become a total waste of time and at this point you are just trolling. You also seem to lack any knowledge when it comes to California gun laws and math. You must be 18 years old to purchase a long gun. that means a person owning a legal AW would have been at least 18 in 2001. It is now 2009. Anyone that is younger than 26 years old could not have purchased an AW before the 2001 ban. With that note, I am going to stop wasting my time and move on to someone who wants a serious discussion instead of stirring up and spreading FUD.

[Jonathan Doe]

I have taken enough reports for various crimes in my time on the streets. If there is a crime occurred and the LEO refused to take a report, he/she will be in a hot seat if they cannot justify why they didn't take the report. If you are unhappy with the agency of your area, you can discuss it with the management, or go to neighboring agency and have them file a courtesy report. They will forward the report to the right agency. I have taken plenty of courtesy reports for other abencies in the past.

And regarding on AW, if I am on duty and happened to see a guy with OLL rifle and he puts in a 30 round mag, or just using a finger to release the mag, I will definitely check his rifle out.

[retired]

I have taken enough reports for various crimes in my time on the streets. If there is a crime occurred and the LEO refused to take a report, he/she will be in a hot seat if they cannot justify why they didn't take the report. If you are unhappy with the agency of your area, you can discuss it with the management, or go to neighboring agency and have them file a courtesy report. They will forward the report to the right agency. I have taken plenty of courtesy reports for other agencies in the past.

And regarding on AW, if I am on duty and happened to see a guy with OLL rifle and he puts in a 30 round mag, or just using a finger to release the mag, I will definitely check his rifle out.

Isn't that the truth! I once took a 211 report for an agency whose first 2 letters are the same as our dept.'s (), because their officer refused to take it, even tho the guy literally, after being beaten, dragged himself along the street, in the pouring rain, to where the officer was citing someone. Told him to go home and have the county take it tho it occurred in his area.

I won't even add to the main point here as it has been more than adequately answered by others here.

[Jonathan Doe]

I used to live in a area where it was patrolled by a big agency. One day, a passer by let me know that someone hung a cat, a dead one now, on my back gate to the alley. I called the agency and they refused to take the report. I took the incident as a threat but they didn't care. I ended up calling my watch commander who in turn the WC of the agency. They then sent out a sgt and an officer. They kept trying to kiss it off.

I ended up tellin gthe officer how to write a report under what title. Go figure. I feel the pain of people got kissed off a report.

[J-cat]

J-cat, Seriously Since you do not work for a Police dept, Sheriffs dept or CHP You really get zero experience in really dealing with common search and seizure issues.

It's a different ball game when you are on patrol actively looking for violations of the law, or POTENTIAL law violations. Working for the CDC you deal with wards of the state. They have no rights or limited rights in dealing with searches.

Police Deputies and the CHP deal with these complex search and seizure issues each and every citizen contact.

J-cat I mean no disrespect to you by my following statement.

I think you do a disservice to the members here and run the risk of giving out bad advice because of your lack of real experience in dealing with day to day search and seizure issues.

Now if there is a question regarding the rights of a ward of the state, You would be the man for the answer. Just not answers for day to day police work issues.


Each case is different.

It's up to each officer to justify his actions when writing a crime report. He must include all his Probable cause so his case is filed by the D.A.'s office.

It's my opinion that a reasonable officer COULD most likely be justified in a quick check of what appeared to him to be a illegally configured assault weapon anywhere. Ranges included.

The contact with the individual with the rifle could take only seconds to determine the rifles legality.

Most of the delay in the contact would probably come from the subject being checked if he causes problems or acts in an unreasonable way. Thus prolonging the contact.

I run into search/seizure issues more frequently than you think. The wards of the state, as you call them, associate with free citizens who become entangled in search/seizure issues by that virtue. I have to sort out whom I detain and search, who gets to walk away depending on the circumstances of the contact. I don't know what you do, but you obviously don't know what I do. I've been dealing with this issue for a long time, so please don't tell me I don't have any experience.

[Ron-Solo]

I used to work with a guy who would spend 30 minutes trying to kiss off a 10 minute report. Used to piss me off on a regular basis. Thankfully I didn't work with him very long.

[Ron-Solo]

I run into search/seizure issues more frequently than you think. The wards of the state, as you call them, associate with free citizens who become entangled in search/seizure issues by that virtue. I have to sort out whom I detain and search, who gets to walk away depending on the circumstances of the contact. I don't know what you do, but you obviously don't know what I do. I've been dealing with this issue for a long time, so please don't tell me I don't have any experience.

You still keep dodging the question posed many times......What do you do?

[J-cat]

Obviously this has become a total waste of time and at this point you are just trolling. You also seem to lack any knowledge when it comes to California gun laws and math. You must be 18 years old to purchase a long gun. that means a person owning a legal AW would have been at least 18 in 2001. It is now 2009. Anyone that is younger than 26 years old could not have purchased an AW before the 2001 ban. With that note, I am going to stop wasting my time and move on to someone who wants a serious discussion instead of stirring up and spreading FUD.

Wow, are you capable of pointing out a mistake without hurling insults?

I don't know anything about gun laws? So my statement about AW being legal to possess at a public shooting range is incorrect?

I say you don't know anything about courteous interaction with other human beings.

[J-cat]

You still keep dodging the question posed many times......What do you do?

Why is that so important to you? I keep asking you to make a logical argument supporting your position instead of dwelling on my credentials. You are the one dodging.

Please explain how mere possession of an AW at a public shooting range rises to the level of reasonable suspicion that criminal behavior is occurring.

[J-cat]

There many legal machine guns in California, supressors also.

But they are in possession of law enforcement and movie studios, not common joes.

[J-cat]

Not true. Handguns that you had before the state required registration are still legal to possess, and there is no requirement to register them now.

But handhuns obtained afterward are not, are they.

[ST5MF]

But they are in possession of law enforcement and movie studios, not common joes.

...Class II Manufacturers, C3 Dealers, Prop Masters...

[Ron-Solo]

Why is that so important to you? I keep asking you to make a logical argument supporting your position instead of dwelling on my credentials. You are the one dodging.

I ask because you keep boasting of your vast experience in search and seizure, but your info is mis-guided and inaccurate.

And you keep dodging the question....still

Based on your posts, I doubt you are a peace officer. You are definitely not a City Police Officer, Deputy Sheriff, or CHP. You answers show that very clearly.

To put it bluntly..........Put Up, or Shut Up.


If you'll notice, there are many other veteran officers and deputy sheriff's that are trying to explain to you that your information is incorrect.

Please, STOP THE MIS-INFORMATION[ before your advice gets someone in legal trouble.