why do so many come in here and BASH COPS

[J-cat]

Ron-Solo,

Specifically, what Penal Code section violation are you investigating when you decide to harass a public shooting range customer?

My reading of the Penal Code shows only one section making simple possession of an AW illegal: PC 12280

Any person who, within this state, possesses any assault
weapon, except as provided in this chapter, shall be punished by
imprisonment in a county jail for a period not exceeding one year, or
by imprisonment in the state prison.

That very same Penal Code section also says that it does not apply to anyone who possesses a registered AW:

(o) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) shall not apply to any of the
following persons:
(1) A person acting in accordance with Section 12285.

Since possession of a registered AW is not illegal, the only Penal Code section you are left with is 12285 which specifically permits possession of said AW at a public shooting range:

(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a
.50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of
the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is
first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other
property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with
the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private
club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing
shooting at targets.

In light of the above, where is your reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is occurring?

Otherwise, you are just fishing.

There is nothing in the Penal Code requiring anyone to furnish proof of AW registration to a peace officer.

The only law that imposes such a duty is the Vehicle Code:

4462. (a) The driver of a motor vehicle shall present the
registration or identification card or other evidence of registration
of any or all vehicles under his or her immediate control for
examination upon demand of any peace officer.

Are you confusing the Penal Code with the Vehicle Code?

[masameet]

You know, the irony of this thread is two cops are bashing each other.

Where on the worldwide web but Calguns would such a thing occur? lol

[Ducman]

You know, the irony of this thread is two cops are bashing each other.

Where on the worldwide web but Calguns would such a thing occur? lol

+1 Just to darn funny

Masameet, are you also member at ducati.ms ???

[nobody33]

You know, the irony of this thread is two cops are bashing each other.

Where on the worldwide web but Calguns would such a thing occur? lol

Dude, this is nothing. Officer.com it happens all the time. The trooper vs city cop debates are pretty funny.

[masameet]

I think I've read some of those threads on Officer.com. lol

But this thread is entitled "Why do so many come in here and BASH COPS."

Why indeed? LOL

[masameet]

+1 Just to darn funny

... are you also member at ducati.ms ???

Joined because I was thinking of getting a Monster. Never posted. But then got a DRZ400SM as my second bike. It's still my favorite bike.

[rolly]

Joined because I was thinking of getting a Monster. Never posted. But then got a DRZ400SM as my second bike. It's still my favorite bike.

use to ride a 996...I was an easy target for the cops.
then "i was crashed" between 2 cars and later I got a ZX10R ...again an easy target for cops (no kidding got a ticket while I was 5mph stopping at a traffic light!!!)
Now I only go to the track, no more street riding!!!

so far I got 75% bad experience (where cops were making up stories to give me a ticket) and 25% "good" experience (when I desserved the ticket) but never got a warning for speeding nor any help from a cop after a crash (twice rear ended).

[goathead]

use to ride a 996...I was an easy target for the cops.
then "i was crashed" between 2 cars and later I got a ZX10R ...again an easy target for cops (no kidding got a ticket while I was 5mph stopping at a traffic light!!!)
Now I only go to the track, no more street riding!!!

so far I got 75% bad experience (where cops were making up stories to give me a ticket) and 25% "good" experience (when I desserved the ticket) but never got a warning for speeding nor any help from a cop after a crash (twice rear ended).

may be its the way you drive i had VFR750 all red, cbr 600 all loud pipes i have had 5 other motorcycles and have never been pulled over

[masameet]

I've been pulled over twice on my DRZ. But the very nice officers let me off. One of the officers was the late, great Sgt. Paul Starzyk. He was very generous in giving firearms advice.

[Jonathan Doe]

I just have a question regarding an AW whoever can answer it, maybe between J-Cat and Ron-Solo. If I see a Double Star or Stag OLL rifle at the range, I know it is not listed on any categories of AW, which means it cannot have an AW features. If the shooter releases the magazine with the use of just a finger, and inserting a 30 round magazine, let's say I see him loading 30 rounds in the mag, does it not give a LEO a PC or RC to check out the rifle to see if the shooter is in violation?

J-Cat: I cannot check it?
Ron_Solo: I can check it?

What is the verdict? What does everyone think?

[Ron-Solo]

I just have a question regarding an AW whoever can answer it, maybe between J-Cat and Ron-Solo. If I see a Double Star or Stag OLL rifle at the range, I know it is not listed on any categories of AW, which means it cannot have an AW features. If the shooter releases the magazine with the use of just a finger, and inserting a 30 round magazine, let's say I see him loading 30 rounds in the mag, does it not give a LEO a PC or RC to check out the rifle to see if the shooter is in violation?

J-Cat: I cannot check it?
Ron_Solo: I can check it?

What is the verdict? What does everyone think?

Yes, which is the point I've been trying to make. Since the OLLs were made after the AW ban went into effect, based on what you see the operator doing, you have 'reasonable suspicion' that the person may be in possession of an illegal AW. On it's face it is not enough to arrest, but it is sufficient to investigate further.

Ron

[nobody33]

I just have a question regarding an AW whoever can answer it, maybe between J-Cat and Ron-Solo. If I see a Double Star or Stag OLL rifle at the range, I know it is not listed on any categories of AW, which means it cannot have an AW features. If the shooter releases the magazine with the use of just a finger, and inserting a 30 round magazine, let's say I see him loading 30 rounds in the mag, does it not give a LEO a PC or RC to check out the rifle to see if the shooter is in violation?

J-Cat: I cannot check it?
Ron_Solo: I can check it?

What is the verdict? What does everyone think?

You don't need RS or PC to walk up to the guy start a conversation and ask about it. If he refuses to talk about it then packs up and leaves I would say further investigation by DOJ would be warranted (writing down license plate, getting the info from the range if possible, running a DROS check, etc etc).

It's not very tactically sound to jam up someone holding an AW up at the range IMHO. If you wanted to I suppose, articulating RS for a detention on that would be easy.

[Ron-Solo]

You have not. You said that AW's are illegal, therefore that is your RS. That is not an explanation. That is rephrasing the issue we're discussing.

No, I said possession of an unregistered AW was illegal. If, based on the officers training and experience, he recognizes the lower as one that was manufactured after the ban (i.e. an off-list lower) that is obviously built to be an AW by feature, he has 'reasonable suspicion' to investigate further. That does not mean he can make an arrest at that time. This applies if the contact is on the street, a range open to the public (or even a private range if he has the legal right to be there), an open shooting area such as BLM or National Forest land.


Nobody is going to get into legal trouble. I did not excourage anyone to break the law or to disobey an order from a LEO.

NO, you specifically told someone to tell the LEO to "F-Off" That advice, along with some of the other information you've put out, may very well indeed get someone in trouble.

As far as what I do, you still haven't figured it out? Are you serious? You're no cop.

This isn't a pissing contest about credentials.

Like I've said before, you are STILL DODGING THE QUESTION.

All you have committed to being is someone who has "peace officer" status and denied you are a Correctional Officer.

That leaves the field wide open. If you were a City Police officer, County Deputy Sheriff, or Highway Patrol Officer you would have said so. That leaves it open from the State Gaming Commission to the Veternary Licensing Board. Security Officers of a Water District and the Public Utilities Commission have "peace officer" powers (830.31 PC) Some others include Food and Drug Administration Investigators, Racing Board Investigators, and many others.

You claim your knowledge is based on your peace officer status, which is questionable, since you won't answer the question.

It leads to credibility, which is why you should quit dodging the question.

[Ron-Solo]

You don't need RS or PC to walk up to the guy start a conversation and ask about it. If he refuses to talk about it then packs up and leaves I would say further investigation by DOJ would be warranted (writing down license plate, getting the info from the range if possible, running a DROS check, etc etc).

It's not very tactically sound to jam up someone holding an AW up at the range IMHO. If you wanted to I suppose, articulating RS for a detention on that would be easy.

Very true. Tactics is a whole different ballgame. What you can legally do and what you can do in a tactically sound manner are often two different things. Then throw in what is practical.......Especially if you are off duty. I can count on one hand where I've taken action off duty in the last 32 years.

[TRICKSTER]

You have not. You said that AW's are illegal, therefore that is your RS. That is not an explanation. That is rephrasing the issue we're discussing.

Nobody is going to get into legal trouble. I did not excourage anyone to break the law or to disobey an order from a LEO.

As far as what I do, you still haven't figured it out? Are you serious? You're no cop.

This isn't a pissing contest about credentials.

Post #106

If you tell these guys to F-off, that's all they will be able to do.

If you are a cop, you are a Defense Attorneys dream witness.