why do so many come in here and BASH COPS

[nobody33]

Ummmm...thats just flat out not the case. Our 1st amendment rights are protected by the 1st amendment.

Without people to enforce it... and shed blood in it's defense.. it's just words.

[Triad]

830.1

[Trendkill]

Without people to enforce it... and shed blood in it's defense.. it's just words.

Thats what the military does. Wasnt tryin to argue....but...we should recognize the difference between LE and military.

[J-cat]

J-cat, I'm sitting here in excrutitating pain from surgery this am. Percoset and Kessler is only barely taking the edge off. We get enough tail-chasing and obtuse statements here from non LEO's. I have a lot of patience, but it is finite. I'm weary and tired of you playing "Riddle me this" and "20 questions" on this forum. For God's sake man, just state your occupation, and who you work for specificaliy. Here, I'll start the process so that you can learn from my example. U.S.Army MP, LASO Deputy Sheriff, CHP Officer. Presently full-time college student, working on a J.D. degree. Okay, so that's how it's done. Not only do I talk the Talk, I walk the walk. Your turn.

My credentials are not the issue in this discussion. This isn't about my peace officer status is better than yours. We are talking about basic detention here, not any law enforcement specialty. Please stick to the issue, like Ron-Solo finally started to do.

[J-cat]

Gentlemen,

I refer you to the following. I hope this settles the question once and for all:

12031 PC

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.

It does not settle the issue. Firearms may be loaded while at a shooting range. A cop cannot ask you to relinquish possession of your gun while you are shooting it at a shooting range just to see if it is loaded for the purpose of determining whether you have a loaded gun in public.

[J-cat]

It seems like there is a dispute about the peace officer status on this board. There are so many different types of peace officer status based on PC 830.***. City officers, deputy sheriffs, ... are 830.1. Anyone here mind saying what their status is? I am 830.1. Maybe this can clear up some questions.

I'm 830.5

[TRICKSTER]

See, there you go again, firing off without thinking:

If a cop asks to see your gun, that is not a direct order. You can tell him to F-off. He cannot cite you unless someone other than himself is offended.

If a cop orders you to put the gun down and step away from it, that is a direct order and you have to comply. Ever been detained? Ever been approached? Do you know the difference? Obviously not.

J-cat, you seem to be speaking about theory, not reality. A good street cop will find a legal way to establish cause.
You can twist situations all day long to fit your theories, but in the long run, what you are doing is spreading bad advise that will only end up making the job of law enforcement harder and may result in someone getting in trouble or getting some officer hurt.

[geeknow]

My position is that your typical AR at the range is going to be a generic Colt, Armalite, Bushy, etc. You can't tell without looking up close. You don't know when it was obtained. There is no provision in the law that allows you to demand to examine it just because you feel like it. That was my whole point all along. If you overhear a conversation, have specific knowledge it is a post-ban gun, it fires off a full-auto burst, etc. then you have the right to detain. And yes, no one has the right to resist a detention, be it lawful or unlawful, but they don't have to put up with any sneaky consensual stuff either.

OK, so this is your position. But from what I read above (and I could have mis-read, so please bear with me), the only factors present that could warrant detention (again, based upon the above scenario only) are beyond the scope of 99% of LEO's to judge (legally speaking).

Devils advocate section...
How could you have "specific knowledge" that would enable you, there on the street, to determine one way or the other whether it was on or off-list?

Are "everyday cops" given that kind of formal training and is that an "official" responsibility? Or, when presented with that scenario while on the clock, is SOP to write it up and send it to the lab for determination?

If it is the latter, and you choose to make it the reason for continued contact, arent you putting yourself and any possible case in jeopardy?

thanks in advance to whomever pipes in...

g

[Jonathan Doe]

For all the AW cases I work on, I have to refer to the CA Penal Code and CA DOJ assault weapon guide to be sure. Most street LEO's will not have a complete knowledge unless he/she carries the guide. I used to.

As I see it these days, I know several receivers that are not on the list first hand, CMMG, Double Star, S&W... So, if I see those receivers that I recognize as an OLL and see the AW features, I think it will give me a reason to check it out.

[7222 Hawker]

What I find funny is that all the cop haters that come on here always seem to complain about LEO's not understanding OLL's etc. Who do they think are educating our fellow officers about such things? All the officers I know who have been educated about OLL's were taught by us LEO's who are calgunners. One would think the other calgunners would appreciate us furthering the cause and getting the word out.

As for those who can't seem to catch a break on a speeding ticket - try being polite and slapping an NRA sticker and a Ducks Unlimited sticker on your car. You will probably get a pass on my beat!

[Jonathan Doe]

Well, let me put it this way. If the rifles are confiscated in LA county, most likely, it will end up in my office, and most likely I will see the majority of them. And, I will determine if it is AW or not and write the report on it. So, stop arguing and follow the rules, and I will be fair on my assessment. I am pretty sure that I am pretty familiar with the AW regulations. I don't care whose gun it is or what the circumstances was. I report fairly and squarely.

[SVT-40]

Retired 830.1

[Fire in the Hole]

Retired 830.2.

[Ron-Solo]

How you feeling Fire?

[Fire in the Hole]

How you feeling Fire?

I just posted an answer on CHP Questions. Okay I guess. I had to go back to Dr. todat at 1800 hrs. Because the nurse that casted me up after the Dr. had gone 10-10, put it on way too tight, and I was suffering compression injuries to the surrounding tissue. They had to cut it off, and do a re-cast.