why do so many come in here and BASH COPS

[J-cat]

J-CAT I agree with you whole heartedly. However, logic and reason don't always apply. Many in the CADOJ don't have a clue of the laws they themselves are intrusted to enforce. This is why Cali is in a perpetual state of lunacy when it comes to this stuff.

Don't think you will get into a pissing contest with a LEO in a public place with a firearm and win. The LEO can be an 80yr old geriatric women; you will loose in a pissing contest every time bro.

If you tell these guys to F-off, that's all they will be able to do. You shooting an AW at a public shooting range is specifically allowed by the Penal Code. That activity does not even rise to the level of Reasonable Suspicion. Yes, they can approach you and ask questions, but they cannot do anything more than that. If they do, the consensual encounter turns into an unlawful detention and gives you legal avenues for relief.

Stop being paranoid.

[Ron-Solo]

You are discharging a rifle in a place where it is specifically allowed by the penal code. The cop cannot do squat to you unless the rifle is obviously illegal, i.e. silencer, short barrel, automatic fire, etc.

You are not totally correct in your assumption. If an officer sees something he suspects might be illegal in plain view in a place where he has the legal right to be, he/she has the legal authority to contact that person and investigate.

Since CA requires AWs to be registered, if an officer sees a suspected AW, he can verify the registration. There are certain ground rules that must be followed, but it can be done.

The same applies to an OLL w/bullet button, etc. Your best bet in that situation would be having the ability to explain OLLs, BB, etc using a flowchart commonly posted on CalGuns. Ignoring the officer will certainly bring on further investigation. I'm not saying you have to incriminate yourself or give up any of your rights. Politely educating the officer on OLLs could save you a lot headaches in the future.

Avoid absolutes. To say someone can't ever do this or that is lining you up for future problems.

Most cops don't have any info regarding OLL's. It's up to everyone to get the word out. I didn't know anything about them until last summer when a friend of mine (non-LEO & Calgunner) told me about them. Since I usually stay on top of things, I didn't believe him until I did some serious research on my own. Now I try to spread the word when ever I can, and I own an OLL, and encourage friends to build them too.

Aloha,

Ron

[Ron-Solo]

If you tell these guys to F-off, that's all they will be able to do.

Bad advice, you are incorrect

You shooting an AW at a public shooting range is specifically allowed by the Penal Code. That activity does not even rise to the level of Reasonable Suspicion.

See other post

Yes, they can approach you and ask questions, but they cannot do anything more than that.

More bad advice

If they do, the consensual encounter turns into an unlawful detention and gives you legal avenues for relief.

Depending on the circumstances, it can be a legal detention

Stop being paranoid.

Good advice. Most law enfocement officers don't want to hassle honest gun owners. If you do something to draw our attention, we will follow up. I worked an area that had a legal shooting area in my patrol area. I made a lot of contacts, talked to a lot of great people, saw a wide variety of guns. I made my share of weapons related arrests, most of which were in the area around the shooting area because of knuckleheads who didn't want to follow the rules. If you are acting responsible in an area where it is legal to shoot, the only reason I'd want to talk to you is because I like guns and like to talk to people about guns. If you're rude, the first thing a LEO is going to think is "What is this guy hiding?" It just peaks our natural curiosity, it's human nature.

Enjoy your guns, use them responsibly, and keep a copy of the Calguns flowchart on AWs handy. That's what I do, even though I have a badge. I still have to deal with the same laws you do. My non-LEO son does the same.

I don't know what J-Cat's qualifications are for his advice, but he seems to make a lot of 'absolute' type decisions.

Aloha,

Ron

[ST5MF]

If you tell these guys to F-off, that's all they will be able to do. You shooting an AW at a public shooting range is specifically allowed by the Penal Code. That activity does not even rise to the level of Reasonable Suspicion. Yes, they can approach you and ask questions, but they cannot do anything more than that. If they do, the consensual encounter turns into an unlawful detention and gives you legal avenues for relief.

Stop being paranoid.

Don't confuse paranoia with realism.

If you believe you can tell an LEO to F--- Off and not suffer any repercussions you are fooling yourself and are misguided.

Going back to what I stated earlier. As most law abiding citizens do "rolling with the punches" when dealing with LEO's; Ya it sucks walking away feeling like you just got A** raped but it is an unfortunate flaw in dealing with an imperfect society with imperfect people sometimes at the helm.

If you are legal and have nothing to hide then answering questions by an LEO is the only course of action anyone should take in this scenario. If not out of respect than at least out of intelligence (why give an LEO or Agency any more reason to F*** you?)

[Ron-Solo]

ST5MF,

Sounds like we could use someone with your common sense in law enforcement. Too bad you chose another path.

[J-cat]

Because they can't. Not there, anyway.

And I'm not fooling myself. I'm one of them (not DOJ). I'm not saying you should be profane, just tell them to leave you alone.

[SVT-40]

As stated by the other guys. If you are in a public place and an officer believes he sees a violation of law (illegal assault weapon in this hypothetical case) he can approach you and demand to examine it to determine if it's legal or not.

Just like any contact to determine if a crime is occurring or not.

What could happen is you could be in full compliance with the law, but cause such a big fuss that you delay the officer to the extent that you end up getting arrested for 148 PC (delaying or resisting a peace officer).

Just play nice and explain the reason your rifle is legal. Show a flow chart or other info published her regarding OLL's ect. It's never a real good idea to tell a officer or anyone for that matter to F off. Only bad things will come of it.

[J-cat]

No he can't. You are not in just any public place. You are at a public shooting range. An AW at a public shooting range is not RS for a detention, Sorry, you are wrong.

[J-cat]

Furthermore, telling a cop to leave you alone is not a 148.

[ST5MF]

Because they can't. Not there, anyway.

And I'm not fooling myself. I'm one of them (not DOJ). I'm not saying you should be profane, just tell them to leave you alone.

If you are being questioned by an LEO telling him/her "to leave you alone" ain't going to cut it. If you truly are an LEO, which matters not personally, then would you have someone pull that on you if you felt you were conducting your duties as a LEO?

Fact is in the MIND of the LEO they determine what is legal or illegal in a scenario. Whether they are right or wrong matters not.

This again goes back to the OP...

[J-cat]

Oh really? What do you think he'll do?

[ST5MF]

Oh really? What do you think he'll do?

Oh no, here we go.

Again, I agree with you. But you aren't looking at this very objectively. You can be a hundred times right in the law. You get into a pissing contest with an LEO and he believes he is right and you are wrong; it can be a bad day for you. And for what? If you are legal then why do you want tell an LEO to "leave you alone." Did I miss something?

If you are doing something illegal then whats the difference?

While I admit that I have been accused of being a knuckle-dragger more than once in my life- I don't understand what good could come about from your "legal" advice(?).

[J-cat]

Telling a LEO to leave you alone when you have done nothing wrong is perfectly legal.

[SVT-40]

Furthermore, telling a cop to leave you alone is not a 148.

It is if he's conducting an investigation and you are interfering or delaying him it sure could be.

One question, just why is a public range not a place where an officer can make observations about possible criminal behavior?

So in the same light if you were in possession of lets say a baggie of meth at the range and an officer spotted you. Would he be able to stop you and determine if in fact the white powder was meth or some other illegal substance??

Same issue with the rifle. He can investigate. If you refuse or delay him you could be in violation of 148 PC.

Here it is verbatim form the P.C.

148. (a) (1) Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or an emergency medical
technician, as defined in Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797)
of the Health and Safety Code, in the discharge or attempt to
discharge any duty of his or her office or employment, when no other
punishment is prescribed, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail
not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

[ST5MF]

Telling a LEO to leave you alone when you have done nothing wrong is perfectly legal.

You appear to be much smarter than this.

If an LEO is in his/her mind conducting his/her duty; then legal or not, to impede them puts you in the wrong by default.

Saying it is "LEGAL" is not an argument. Getting in their way is and will always be a bad idea.