MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[Clif]

Regulations:

Old: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a.../chapter39.pdf

New: https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-co...egulations.pdf

No no no, those are CalDOJ regs. Where is detachable magazine in the Penal code? The penal code mentions detachable magazine, but I only find definitions for fixed magazine.

[meno377]

No no no, those are CalDOJ regs. Where is detachible magazine in the Penal code?

Let me know if you find it. I can't.

[Clif]

OR if it does not require a tool to disengage the magazine then it's detachable.

That is why a BB is not a detachable magazine- a tool is required to remove the magazine.

Now do you get it? Read the sentence swiftly a few times and it should come to you.

What defines a detachable magazine if it does NOT require disassembly of the action? Standard mag release or a device that does not have a mag catch, assembly, spring, etc. as in the second paragraph of 5471(m).

If either do the determinants do not apply, then it must be a non-detachable magazine.

It is not up to CalDOJ to define, it can only be defined by Penal Code. You are INFERRING that anything that does not require dissassembly of the action is a detachable magazine. But according to PC, that is non-fixed. No where I find in PC defines Detachable magazine as listed in 30515 (a) (7).

[Cokebottle]

Not that it matters, because the design is impractical, but for the sake of argument wouldn't a "featureless" AR pistol with the original BB still be legal because the new DOJ regs say the BB is NOT detachable? And the magazine outside the grip only applies if detachable. New regs define BB as as not fixed yet not detachable, which isn't in the penal code, but if that's what they're going with...

New PC has replaced "unable to accept a detachable magazine" with "that does not have a fixed magazine"

BB is no longer an exemption.

[Clif]

30515 (a) (1) and 30515(a) (4) list non fixed magazine

But 30515 (a) (7) lists a detachable magazine

Fixed magazine is defined. Detachable is not. If it is prohibbited, it MIST be defined in PC, not CalDOJ Regs.

[Clif]

New PC has replaced "unable to accept a detachable magazine" with "that does not have a fixed magazine"

BB is no longer an exemption.

Please read 30515 (a) (7), FIXED MAGAZINE is not there. It is DETACHABLE MAGAZINE.

[gdt82]

New PC has replaced "unable to accept a detachable magazine" with "that does not have a fixed magazine"

BB is no longer an exemption.

Correct that BB doesn't qualify as fixed, which means the pistol would have to be featureless. But if you look at the list of features in the penal code for pistols:

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

So if the BB is truly NOT detachable according to DOJ, then it works.

Problem is they could just say the magwell qualifies as second grip and that's also a feature. But interesting nonetheless.

[ifilef]

Anyone find legal definition of "detachable magazine"? Does it not exist? My search capabilities came up with nothing.

11 CCR 5469 in existence since the year 2000. 11 CCR 5471(m) soon to go into effect. It is the amended version of 5469.

[bigdawg86]

This thread makes me head hurt... Wake me when it's over.

[Cokebottle]

Please read 30515 (a) (7), FIXED MAGAZINE is not there. It is DETACHABLE MAGAZINE.

30515 has been modified by the new PC.
The definitions are in the (not yet adopted) DOJ CCR, but the statement that a fixed magazine is required is the basis of the amendment to the PC, that is not from the DOJ.

[Clif]

30515.
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
-clip-
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

I want to know what a DETACHABLE magazine is. The PC doesn't list it. For it to be prohibited, it has to be in PC and defined in PC. CalDOJ cannot define, only adopt and relist definitions in PC.

[Cokebottle]

Problem is they could just say the magwell qualifies as second grip and that's also a feature. But interesting nonetheless.

That is indeed why the magwell grips were not advised for featureless rifle builds.

[ifilef]

30515 (a) (1) and 30515(a) (4) list non fixed magazine

But 30515 (a) (7) lists a detachable magazine

Fixed magazine is defined. Detachable is not. If it is prohibbited, it MIST be defined in PC, not CalDOJ Regs.

That's 'strange', because 'detachable magazine' has been defined in the regs since the year 2000 and it seemed to work well.

The regs supplement, explain and 'fill in the gaps' in the PC. I don't see where the PC must necessarily define a detached magazine. That is where the regs are helpful and have the force of law. The PC may be stated in general language where specific definitions may be contained in the regs that are not otherwise defined in the PC.

[Cokebottle]

detachable magazine.

Not talking about shotguns.

[Virginian]

detachable magazine.

I can detach a shotgun magazine with a tool (hacksaw) and reattach it with a tool (arc welder). Is that an AW?