MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[lrdchivalry]

And left everything else the same.

Which means they are still AW's by feature and still governed by 30515 which is AW BY FEATURE

[Drew Eckhardt]

Okay, now back to detachable vs. NOT detachable magazines when your other question properly analyzed requires conformity with the definition of a fixed magazine.

To answer this new inquiry:

The definition of a detachable magazine is framed in the negative.

If the magazine device does not require disassembly of the action OR use of a tool it IS a detachable magazine.

BB does require use of a tool to readily remove the magazine. Therefore, BB is NOT a detachable magazine.

I didn't understand what was going on until this morning, although after carefully considering the opposing view I still believe magazines which are detachable are a subset of those which are not fixed with bullet buttons producing magazines that are neither detachable nor fixed.

Calgunners are disagreeing because DOJ changed the wording making it ambiguous.

11 CCR 5469(a) read

(a) “Detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

with neither/nor unambiguous.

11 CCR 5471(m) now reads

"Detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action or use of a tool. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

An AR-15 style firearm that has a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet-button constitutes a detachable magazine. An AR-15 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, magazine catch spring and magazine release button) constitutes a detachable magazine. An AK-47 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, spring, and rivet/pin) constitutes a detachable magazine.

where the first paragraph can be interpreted as

"Detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without
((disassembly of the firearm) or (use of a tool))

where people think no disassembly alone qualifies regardless of bullet button, although using De Morgan's Theorem that's the same as

"Detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with
((no disassembly of the firearm) and (no use of a tool))

meaning the bullet button alone is disqualifying.

DOJ resolves the ambiguity in the second paragraph where

a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet-button constitutes a detachable magazine.

implies a bullet-button alone does not make a detachable magazine until you leave the magnet installed.

DOJ may be trying to push the issue without explicitly stating "Detachable magazine means any ammunition feeding device which is not fixed" in a tactical attempt to give the legislators what they wanted and strategic move to expand their legislative authority. Maybe they're hoping people register although not legally required to. Maybe they're trying to cut "assault weapon" ownership through Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Maybe they want latitude for the 50 plus California attorney generals to prosecute using overly broad interpretations of the law.

11 CCR 5470(b) reads

A semiautomatic, centerfire firearm (rifle, pistol, shotgun) with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon, that has one or more specified features identified in Penal Code section 30515 is included in the category of firearms that must be registered.

which only has legal meaning with shotguns if "has the ability to accept a detachable magazine" applies to bullet buttoned guns in
PC 30515(7)

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Curiously, 11 CCR 5470(b) also omits mention of rimfire pistols which are covered by PC 30515(a)(4)

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:

which suggests this crap is coming from incompetence not malfeasance.

[Clif]

Just because the term detachable magazine is listed in the PC does not create a separate category of AW. The word detachable is mentioned in 30515 in the section on pistols and shotguns, however, that does not create a separate category of AW. All it states is that detachable magazine is a feature that could make it an AW if it meets other criteria as well..

Example is: (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine. This doesn't make it a category 5, 7 or 10 AW. It makes it a category 3 AW by feature, which is the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

I am afrade the DOJ wont see it that way, and they have stated as such

[lrdchivalry]

I am afrade the DOJ wont see it that way, and they have stated as such

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs

The DOJ seems to disagree with you.

[dieselpower]

ok lets talk, I dont do AW pistols or shotguns, so again I have no dog in this fight.

Pistols.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazineNow Shotguns.

6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

This is straight up common sense, if you have either but not the other, its not an AW.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
This is where the regs come in. The regs define this to mean;
a) "Ability to accept a detachable magazine" means with respect to a semiautomatic shotgun; it does not have a fixed magazine.

again, Not a fixed magazine. It doesnt matter if you can describe it to be a detachable one. The focus is it not having a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? No then go to the next step
Can you remove it without disassembly? No. Then its a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? Yes. You are done. there is no need to go on because the law says that in and of itself creates a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? No then go to the next step
Can you remove it without disassembly? Yes. Then its not a Fixed Magazine.

[Virginian]

ok lets talk, I dont do AW pistols or shotguns, so again I have no dog in this fight.

Pistols.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazineNow Shotguns.

6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

This is straight up common sense, if you have either but not the other, its not an AW.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
This is where the regs come in. The regs define this to mean;
a) "Ability to accept a detachable magazine" means with respect to a semiautomatic shotgun; it does not have a fixed magazine.

again, Not a fixed magazine. It doesnt matter if you can describe it to be a detachable one. The focus is it not having a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? No then go to the next step
Can you remove it without disassembly? No. Then its a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? Yes. You are done. there is no need to go on because the law says that in and of itself creates a Fixed Magazine.

Is the magazine permanently attached? No then go to the next step
Can you remove it without disassembly? Yes. Then its not a Fixed Magazine.

Pistols.... Excepting the "chosen few" that were exempted because, well, banana.

[lrdchivalry]

I dont do AW pistols or shotguns

Neither do I.

[CandG]

I can remove my shotgun's magazine by simply grabbing it and twisting it counter-clockwise a few times

[dieselpower]

I can remove my shotgun's magazine by simply grabbing it and twisting it counter-clockwise a few times

is it a semiauto?

[CandG]

is it a semiauto?

Yessir! My Benelli M4... currently has both a pistol grip an a collapsing stock, though the stock is pinned in a fixed position right now

[dieselpower]

Yessir! My Benelli M4... currently has both a pistol grip an a collapsing stock, though the stock is pinned in a fixed position right now

seems to me its an AW because it lacks a fixed magazine.

[dieselpower]

holy mother of God, we are all looking at (f) (m) and (p) and didnt read (pp)

(pp) "Those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool" means functional semiautomatic rifles pistols and shotguns with bullet-button style magazine releases and one or more
features as defined in Pena Code section 30515 and these regulations These weapons do not have a fixed magazine

ifilef and the others who are looking at detachable and not detachable have no ground to stand on. a detachable magazine designation has no bearing on an identified AW as per 30515 and these regs.

[CandG]

seems to me its an AW because it lacks a fixed magazine.

My post was meant to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, it's a fixed tube magazine, but techinically anything is removeable with a certain amount of work

[The Gleam]

seems to me its an AW because it lacks a fixed magazine.

Doesn't take magazines at all. Tube-magazine.

It's not an AW: fine with the stock pinned - and OK to have the pistol grip.

[SOCOgunguy]

Register that bad boy Gleam, Registration = Cool.