GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[Saigon1965]

He has nothing to go with GPal - A completely seperate entity -

So I'm getting you're affiliated if not one of the co-founders of Gunpal/Gpal? Can you tell me what is the status of getting our money back?

[gunblobber]

And that is quite true. However, there is this to consider. If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in.

I would just like to reiterate my question in response to this statement that you made, as it really reaches to the absolute core of the GPal problem.

Are you saying that, if GPal stopped taking in payments today, it would not have enough money in its accounts to pay all monies owed to all existing accounts? Do you believe that the money is not "all there" as has been asserted all along by GPal?

[eaglemike]

I would just like to reiterate my question in response to this statement that you made, as it really reaches to the absolute core of the GPal problem.

Are you saying that, if GPal stopped taking in payments today, it would not have enough money in its accounts to pay all monies owed to all existing accounts? Do you believe that the money is not "all there" as has been asserted all along by GPal?

How on earth are you coming up with that??? I'm pretty sure that's not what he said or meant...... Remember tenpercent isn't involved in managing GPal....

[SanMiguel3]

How on earth are you coming up with that??? I'm pretty sure that's not what he said or meant...... Remember tenpercent isn't involved in managing GPal....

Why don't you let 10% answer the question himself? I took it the same way.

[eaglemike]

I've been reading this thread for a while. There seems to be a tendency for people to look for a reason to panic, or look for a way to interpret things in a negative way.

I've seen tenpercent's disclaimers......

[Alaric]

How on earth are you coming up with that??? I'm pretty sure that's not what he said or meant...... Remember tenpercent isn't involved in managing GPal....

Not to speak for Gunglobber, but 10%'s post could be interpreted in such a way as to imply that gpal is a pyramid scheme. That's not really the way I took it. I think 10% just meant that it seems like gpal needs to add new customers to replace the ones that are probably leaving in droves over these ongoing problems.

[mcubed4130]

So I'm getting you're affiliated if not one of the co-founders of Gunpal/Gpal? Can you tell me what is the status of getting our money back?

I am sorry - I seem to have confused things by posting here.

No - I am not affiliated with GPal ( GunPal ) nor have I ever been, in any capacity personally or otherwise.

However, my company "GeoVario LLC" is the web hosting provider - for both Calguns.Net and for GPal, Inc.

Also for a time "Ben Cannon" ( the founder of GPal ) was a partner of "GeoVario LLC"; until he resigned in Nov 2009 - I recently posted a rather lengthy clarification here - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=198

However that thread was closed, and the discussion moved to other forums. As I have seen people in this thread - quoting some of my other answers from other forums - I came back here - to ask if anyone else had any questions of me.

I do hope you all get your funds quickly.

As I mentioned - on I forget which forum anymore - we have allowed GPal, Inc. to pay their hosting bills using a GPal account.

Even for GeoVario - each time we do a withdrawal from our account into our bank - it has taken a follow up with GPal support ( each time we have been told there was a "1 time" issue ) - but... several days later the transfer does show up for the correct amount. We noted average times of 17 days from start to finish.

We certainly hope they continue to get all their issues worked out. We also hope they publicly set proper expectation - as 7 days has never been a reality for us either. i.e. I'd rather them publicly say - it'll take 21 days... and then deliver in 17 days - and I can be happy about it.

-Michael

[Librarian]

I would just like to reiterate my question in response to this statement that you made, as it really reaches to the absolute core of the GPal problem.

Are you saying that, if GPal stopped taking in payments today, it would not have enough money in its accounts to pay all monies owed to all existing accounts? Do you believe that the money is not "all there" as has been asserted all along by GPal?

Why don't you let 10% answer the question himself? I took it the same way.

Not to speak for Gunglobber, but 10%'s post could be interpreted in such a way as to imply that gpal is a pyramid scheme. That's not really the way I took it. I think 10% just meant that it seems like gpal needs to add new customers to replace the ones that are probably leaving in droves over these ongoing problems.

???

None of these 3 responses to Wes make any sense at all.

He asked three questions. He did not offer answers, and his previous posts show that he does not have the answers to the questions.

GPal, by the evidence, has problems. Leaping to conclusions from no evidence at all - that is, in this case Wes's three questions - is not going to add anything positive to the resolution of those problems.

[gunblobber]

???

None of these 3 responses to Wes make any sense at all.

He asked three questions. He did not offer answers, and his previous posts show that he does not have the answers to the questions.

GPal, by the evidence, has problems. Leaping to conclusions from no evidence at all - that is, in this case Wes's three questions - is not going to add anything positive to the resolution of those problems.

Ok, I can parse tenpercent's quote to make it clear what I'm getting at.

If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in.

"If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it?" ("it" presumably referring to GPal) I would hope that it would not be a big deal, and that GPal would be able to stop creating new problems while they whittle down the stack of old problems. They constantly whine about the "mountain of support requests," as if by continuing to take payments and add customers, they are not creating new support requests with each new payment received.

"What would happen to your money?" Again, I would *hope* that the customers' money would be safe and sound, and there would not be any problem paying it out to everybody that has money owed. If this is not the case, then GPal is in pretty much a worst-case scenario that confirms all of our worst fears. The money is not "all there" as GPal has claimed repeatedly.

"That is the quandary that GPal is in." I can't help but note that tenpercent used "is" here, unqualified. Not "may be", not "could be", not "might be", but "is". That tells me, in my naive way of thinking, that maybe tenpercent knows something more about the GPal situation than we all do. Slip of the tongue? Poor choice of words? I'm all ears, but I can't let that statement stand without asking for clarification.

I'm not accusing tenpercent of anything. For all I know, tenpercent is a GPal customer (it seems likely) and he could be inferring something from a support e-mail that he got from GPal staff when he sent a support ticket. There are many GPal customers who have had problems over a number of months, and back in June or whenever this started, GPal may have been more open about the problems.

In fact, I personally have an example of this from a support e-mail sent by BK Industries, a vendor (non-firearms related) who processed payments through GPal. This vendor got several thousand sales through listings on woot.com and used GPal for payments. BK Industries did a poor job organizing his sales, but his business was also harmed by GPal-related issues. On 7/22 he sent out a lengthy e-mail explaining the multiple problems that had beset him. Here is an excerpt:

This is actually the most detailed info that I have yet seen regarding the cause of the problems at GPal. Of course, it is just hearsay and not a direct quote from GPal Support; and I hadn't thought to look through those old e-mails to see if there might be anything useful, until now.

Anyway, my point here is that tenpercent may have inadvertently learned something about GPal's problems, and his statement might have been based on that. Or he might have simply misspoken. Which is why I asked (twice) for clarification. tenpercent is the only one who can tell us what he meant by what he said.

[Alaric]

???

None of these 3 responses to Wes make any sense at all.

He asked three questions. He did not offer answers, and his previous posts show that he does not have the answers to the questions.

GPal, by the evidence, has problems. Leaping to conclusions from no evidence at all - that is, in this case Wes's three questions - is not going to add anything positive to the resolution of those problems.

Definitions of leading question on the Web:

a question phrased in such a way as to suggest the desired answer

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&defl=en&q=define:leading+question&sa=X&ei=ItGuTMTfNo7EsAPqzrGLDA&ved=0CBIQkAE

If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it?

It would cease operations eventually.

What would happen to your money?

It would be refunded if in fact the business has appropriately accounted for operating expenses and kept deposited funds separate, as required by law. Has it? By implying that people wouldn't get paid if Gpal stopped taking new clients implies an element of extortion is at play here. "Pay us or you don't get paid what we owe you". More precisely, I think that's what is called "protection".

Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion

But again, I don't think that's what 10% meant. I think he just meant that Ben built a triangularly shaped business model here, and needs new clients to pay the old ones. Err, wait, that's not it. He meant that Ben needs to replace the clients he's losing with new clients to pay his expenses. Is that it?

What was the third question?

[tenpercentfirearms]

Everytime GPal takes in new money, that is more money they can use to pay out. I would assume by law our money is all still there, being held up by the bank system. So if they keep taking in money and some of it clears faster than others, they can pay people faster. My understanding of the problem is the banks are holding up the money and causing the delays. Is it possible the people that are the squeaky wheels are getting greased more than others? Yes it is.

In other words, you are raising hell and threatening to file a lawsuit, so my money comes up and your money is still held up. Might he pay you off sooner than me? It is possible. Again, I have no clue whether that is what is going on or not.

Again, I don't work for GPal and have no idea what is truly going on. So I asked some questions. You guys took those questions as answers. They weren't. They were questions. If GPal stopped taking money, what would happen to our money? Would we get it back sooner than later? Are there operational costs that might need to be paid in a higher priority than you getting your money back? Again, questions I don't have an answer for.

I would think it might be safe to assume if GPal were to declare bankruptcy, that would be bad for us having our money tied up in it. I do not want to see them go bankrupt. Plus I still believe GPal is a worthwhile alternative to PayPal.

You guys are so desperate for answers, you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions. All of you are assuming that anyone who even knew Ben Cannon in any other aspect has all the answers and think their posting means something. It doesn't. And that isn't a dig on anyone, that is just what is happening and it is being fostered by the complete silence from the GPal end. Again, I think we can all agree that the management needs to work on transparency. That might even be an understatement.

We are in the process of getting some answers. Sorry I couldn't be of more help at this time.

[tcrpe]

Everytime GPal takes in new money, that is more money they can use to pay out.

You just defined a Ponzi Scheme.

[tcrpe]

My understanding of the problem is the banks are holding up the money and causing the delays.

Do you really believe that?

[tenpercentfirearms]

Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep the scheme going.

No that is the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

Again, if GPal keeps bringing in money, they can pay more of their customers. They could in theory pay off some accounts with the new profits from their transaction charges.

I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think Ben is ready to spend a good chunk of his young life behind bars. Surely trying to run with the money from GPal wouldn't be worth it.

I think our money is there, it just takes a while to get.

[JTROKS]

I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think Ben is ready to spend a good chunk of his young life behind bars. Surely trying to run with the money from GPal wouldn't be worth it.

I think our money is there, it just takes a while to get.

I hope you're right on that one. For some folks that are out 4 or 5 figures even the folks with only $50 out, I hope they get their money back. I'm retired military and I didn't find work for more than a year with 4 kids to feed and put clothes on sure put a big stress on my bank account. $600 is worth a lot to me.