GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[cadillacmike]

are you out any money? do you even have any idea whats going on here?

a few people who didn't get their money for like a month got pissed off and have started making crazy elaborate stories and posting them in the gpal forum.

so, these lies shouldn't be taken down? when people are demanding money and making crazy accusations after they have been paid, and are just here to stir the pot, that should be left up?

The problem is that it is not a few people (which is defined as perhaps 3-5), but rather Hundreds, and it's not "maybe a month" but 3-4 months & possibly longer that these hundreds are waiting for their own money.

Folks who have been paid and have previously complained should speak up and state the facts, (including how long it took to finally get paid) regarding their final conclusion. I don't see much of that at all, except for several CGN contributors, which tells me one of two things, that the vast majority are still not getting their funds, or that they are not stepping up to let this community know their final resolution.

[Vin496]

You don't know where the money went, correct? Why don't you just ask the parties involved, instead of speculating??????

IIRC the Barrett sweepstakes was loooong before Ben left GeoVario. Did you get your $10 worth from being on the forum, knowing you contributed to the forum?

Have you ever read the post on this forum concerning all this? If you have you would know that any questioning of how these sweepstakes were conducted or questions concerning the money brought in, have all been dead ends.

The info is never provided and in many cases the people asking are chastised for even questioning such things, if not flat out threatened with banning for "instigating" the board.

Now because of the GPal issue, items and people are coming out and confirming issues that were talked about back then.

Again, me spending $10 a long time ago on a sweepstakes has no bearing on the fact that I believe we as a community were not told the truth and in regard with the last sweepstakes completely duped.

If nothing else read this post.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4323250&postcount=248

See when it was dated, at that time he had not worked for GeoVario for at least 5 months, and according to the owner of Geovario they were never given any funds from a raffle.

So please keep deflecting back to me and ignoring what the conversation is really about.

[Kestryll]

So please keep deflecting back to me and ignoring what the conversation is really about.

It's about GPal, not about raffles or sweepstakes.

[cadillacmike]

eaglemike,

I'm all for keeping things civil, etc. Here is the post where the owner of Geovario made the statements that has some folks even further twisted up:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=346308&page=5

It's near the bottom.

As to 10%, and your statement: "And that is quite true. However, there is this to consider. If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in. "

CJ1026 beat me to it, but here is my take:
Every dime taken in should be still there to pay out - minus stated processing charges. If not, that's there the real problem with regulators, et, al would come in, but by then it would be too late for the hundreds owed money.

[Vin496]

It's about GPal, not about raffles or sweepstakes.

Then allow a thread like that to happen without deleting everything or locking it.

Can I ask you an upfront question, to help clear the air of speculation?

Are you and Ben personal friends, not just acquaintances through CG/CGF, but actual friends?

Are you involved monetarily or in any other way with GPal? Not just as a customer or allowing ads/sub forum here. Do you have seed money in GPal,donated equipment, help co sign anything?

I ask these things because you are really going out of your way to control the flow of threads that pertain to GPal and Ben. Why?

I mean even you have to admit that a lot of negative info in starting to come out and lots of it has been confirmed, by members of CGF and the owner of GeoVario. Yet you continue to delete that information.

[gunblobber]

First, GPal is not fly by night. Second, everyone who put money into GPal knew it was a new business and knew the theory was sound. We hate PayPal, GPal was a great alternative.

Now somethings beyond GPal's control have affected the company. Unfortunately GPal didn't handle it as well as they should have and they still aren't coming right out and informing their customers what is going on. We have been in discussions with Ben about this.

I suppose I could yell at Ben Cannon everyday. That I am sure is a real effective way to get things done. I am sure it motivates you to fix things beyond your control when you are yelled at everyday. That sounds real constructive.

I'm not saying that yelling at him could get him to fix the things beyond his control. I'm saying that it could motivate him to do something that is within his control, such as 1) put a notice on the GPal site about the ACH problems; 2) create a GPal Support Forum on gpal.net instead of relying on Calguns; 3) Stop taking in new money until they are sure that the problems are over.

The problems have been going on since June. That is 5 months, now. Some people are getting their money, but only after a long delay. Nobody knows why some people are getting their money and others aren't. Nobody knows what is causing the delays, and why automated withdrawals don't work, but the personal intervention of GPalVP makes it work. Does it come from a different bank account? What's the deal? Either it works, or it doesn't -- I don't see why it should work in some cases, but not in others. That's the most mysterious part of all of this, IMO.

At this point it doesn't matter what anyone says. Until people get their money, they aren't going to believe anything anyway. As is evident in this thread, people will make up rumors and jump to conclusions no matter what anyone says. I suppose it is human nature.

That is a defeatist attitude and one that is plainly not true. I would not be here arguing with you and Kestryll if I didn't feel that it could do some good. I do not believe that "all you Calguns guys are liars". That way lies madness. If you say something, I am willing to take you at your word. You, Kestryll, and other CGF Board members have not lost all credibility like GPal, Ben Cannon, and GPalVP have. "You're not going to believe me anyway if I tell you, so what's the point?" is just childish. If you know something that we don't, tell us!

And that is quite true. However, there is this to consider. If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in.

So are you saying that, if GPal stopped taking in payments today, it would not have enough money in its accounts to pay all monies owed to all existing accounts? (bolded because it's really the most important part of this post, and the first new information that I've seen in a while) Are you suggesting that GPal is, at this point, a Ponzi scheme? (I.e. that it has to take in money from new customers in order to fund payouts to older customers)

I might. I might not. It really doesn't matter what I say here as I could lie and say I would or I could lie and say I wouldn't. In the end what I say doesn't matter. Either people get their money or they don't (I am still waiting on my money as well).

I disagree. What people say, matters. You're not all liars. If somebody says something, I will believe them to the extent that they are credible. You, tenpercent, are credible to me.

And that really is probably the largest problem here. Transparency. Many of these issues could have been avoided had transparency been used. I unfortunately don't have an answer why it wasn't used. Only Ben can answer to that.

So why don't you get on the horn and get him to explain to you, to your own satisfaction, why he has not been transparent? You don't have to publish all the details publicly, but you yourself have said that you have been in contact with Ben. Why hasn't he answered that, to you?

gunglobber, pay attention because you clearly aren't. Yes, there was a trial run where Calguns was going to go incorporated. That trial run failed and it was never finalized. During the trial run, Ben did correctly claim he was partial owner of Calguns, as it was a trial run. However, the final papers were never signed as part of that trial run.

Kestryll said pretty unambiguously (and I quoted) that Ben was put on the Board of Directors as part of a trial run. That part is not in dispute. Kestryll also said that no ownership interests ever changed hands. Calling yourself an "owner" when the paperwork has not been signed is a sign of a delusional, self-aggrandizing personality.

Ben Cannon and Paul Nordberg are friends. They are going to have ties. Paul is not going to sell Ben down the river. So keep digging up their ties if you want, but no one is surprised. We know they are there.

I'm not saying he should "sell Ben down the river" or throw him under the bus. I just want him to publicly distance Calguns.net and the Calguns Foundation from Ben Cannon and GPal, since they were all tied up promotionally and personally. I think that is a very mild step that could go some way towards ending some of the speculation out there. If Ben Cannon won't be transparent, CGN and CGF at least can be.

Are there currently any financial ties between any of these groups? No. The entire GPal fiasco as it is now going is all on Ben Cannon. Time will tell where it goes. All this online bickering is doing absolutely nothing to getting it solved.

Again, for all we know, there are new transactions going through GPal every day by people who are ignorant of all of this. More victims are being created daily. And that is something that *can* be fixed. Those of us who are already in the mix won't be helped by shutting down new transactions, but I see no reason to let new people get their money sucked into a pit.

As much as some people want anyone and everything related to GPal to die, it isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't be anyone's desire either.

That's not what I want. That's not what anybody wants. What we want is a little transparency. We're not getting it from Ben Cannon, and it's like pulling teeth to get it from CGN or CGF. So it looks like CGN and CGF are covering up for Ben Cannon, and that makes people angry at CGN and CGF as well as at Ben Cannon.

There is a lot of information that has come out, but someone would have to dig through 5 different threads on 5 different boards to figure all of it out! Why is there not a sticky at the top of the GPal vendor forum, clarifying the relationship between CGN, CGF and GPal?

[wheels]

I hope GPal survives the current growing pains, and someday we can get the email from Ben that explains the pot holes that GPal is currently navigating. I think if Ben was to start explaining at this time his lawyer would have a coronary. Posting a bunch of transaction details doesn't seem like a smart idea either, best use of GPal's time is moving the money, especially if it is a manual process

I personally think there will be some nefarious scheming by anti's or others (PayPal anyone?) that played a role in the GPal issues, as reading some of the other threads have implied.

[Kestryll]

Then allow a thread like that to happen without deleting everything or locking it.
We have NEVER allowed dogpiles or witch hunts here before why should we now?
The complaint is the claim that an exception is being made and the desired solution is to make an exceptions.
Neither is going to happen.

Can I ask you an upfront question, to help clear the air of speculation?

Are you and Ben personal friends, not just acquaintances through CG/CGF, but actual friends?
I know Ben through CGN and CGF, I have met him on a few occasions and spoken with him via phone on many occasions.
Yes, I consider him a friend, much the same as I consider many other Calgunners who I've met and talked with on repeated occasion to be friends.

Are you involved monetarily or in any other way with GPal? Not just as a customer or allowing ads/sub forum here. Do you have seed money in GPal,donated equipment, help co sign anything?
I have answered this one repeatedly but what's one more ytime.
No, I do not have any monetary interest in GPal as a company.
No stocks.
No ownership.
No payments of any kind.
I have NO seed money in GPal.
No equipment of GPal's was ever mine nor did I pay for any of their equipment.
I have not co-signed anything.

The seed money, equipment and business loans if any have all come from Ben's own pockets not mine.

I ask these things because you are really going out of your way to control the flow of threads that pertain to GPal and Ben. Why?

As stated above, we have NEVER tolerated trashing a forum member for any reason, it has been part of the rules long before GPal even existed.

Questions about GPal and the current issue are relevant to this thread, speculation regarding other issues is not.

[Kestryll]

That's not what I want. That's not what anybody wants. What we want is a little transparency. We're not getting it from Ben Cannon, and it's like pulling teeth to get it from CGN or CGF. So it looks like CGN and CGF are covering up for Ben Cannon, and that makes people angry at CGN and CGF as well as at Ben Cannon.
The problem is that no one from CGN or CGF has any real information beyond what has already been made public.
In short we know what you know and we've said that repeatedly.
No one wants to believe that so it is ignored when it is said.

Other than speculating like everyone else we have nothing to offer and there is enough speculation already.



Why is there not a sticky at the top of the GPal vendor forum, clarifying the relationship between CGN, CGF and GPal?

The relationship, or lack there of, has again been explained repeatedly on several web forums and numerous times here on CGN.
Again, no one wants to believe it so it is dismissed as obfuscation or outright lies.

[Vin496]

As stated above, we have NEVER tolerated trashing a forum member for any reason, it has been part of the rules long before GPal even existed.

Questions about GPal and the current issue are relevant to this thread, speculation regarding other issues is not.

I thank you for the response, and with that. I'll drop it.

This is clearly a messed up situation that is causing a rift amongst members and that is not a good thing.

Hopefully this can be remedied soon.

[gunblobber]

The relationship, or lack there of, has again been explained repeatedly on several web forums and numerous times here on CGN.

I know! My question is, why isn't it stickied in the GPal forum, where GPal customers can see it so that they will stop spreading BS around the Intarwebs? These forums are huge. Where has this information been posted? Here, in "General gun discussions" and also in the "Announcements" forum. Does that make sense, or would it make more sense in the "GPal" forum?

I can see the problems with having a general GPal discussion thread (like this one) in the GPal forum. But, a locked sticky, from you or a mod, containing *only* the info that you have posted a million times over in various places, would not be out of line.

"We know what you know" -- you guys have personal access to Ben Cannon. Why has he not explained, to your own satisfaction, exactly what is going on? Why are you guys left in the dark as much as the general public -- you, who lent your good names to his enterprise? You don't have to come back here and spread all the gory details. I have stated before and I'll state it again: if you or another CGF board member states that they have been fully and personally satisfied with an in-depth explanation about GPal's problems and are confident that those problems will be resolved, I would take their word for it. Sit down with Ben, have some coffee, calmly talk over things for an hour or two, look at the accounts yourself and put all the pieces together so that you are certain where the problems are originating. Then come back here and make a simple statement. Obviously the exact details cannot be revealed, and people would be fine with that. I am not saying that you should sell out your friend. In fact, IMO you would be a very good friend for doing something like this.

[tacticalcity]

The relationship, or lack there of, has again been explained repeatedly on several web forums and numerous times here on CGN.
Again, no one wants to believe it so it is dismissed as obfuscation or outright lies.

It doesn't help that the Calguns name still appears twice on the Gpal home page. Or that the page listing the board members (which I cannot find today) had every member listing their association with Calguns as a reference.

It really doesn't matter that you have noting financially to gain. Gpal used and is currently using the Calguns name in its advertising in order to get Calguns members to sign up. That puts you on the hook. Not financially, but reputation wise.

Let me put into terms my fellow Italians will understand all to well. You vogued for GPal. They mess up, you pay a price. It may not be a 100% fair, but that is the way reputations work.

Attempts to downplay that "association" only adds fuel to the fire. It is going to backfire on you every single time.

It is acceptable to say you have nothing financial to gain. It is unacceptable to say or even imply that you have no "association" with them. Because you do.

Look, this is a very ugly thing. And you are taking a great deal of heat for it you do not deserve. Some of it, however, is deserved. It is a "that serves you right for lending them your name" sort of thing.

The general attitude being expressed publically by you and by the Calguns staff is only making things worse. Too much dodging, denial, and even name calling and ridiculing going on. I really just don't understand it.

[CavTrooper]

If GPal is found to have committed any crimes what actions will Mr Cannons supporters take?

Specifically talking to CGF board members and owners/operators/admin/etc of CGN.

[Matt C]

We have NEVER allowed dogpiles or witch hunts here before why should we now?
As stated above, we have NEVER tolerated trashing a forum member for any reason, it has been part of the rules long before GPal even existed.

Oh really? I'd love to link to some deleted threads.

[Kestryll]

Oh really? I'd love to link to some deleted threads.

But you can't, because they're deleted...

So... that kind of proves the point doesn't it?