GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[Alaric]

As a Calguns member I'm ashamed of what's going on here. This is detrimental to the community itself. It's detracting from the growth, the popularity and the good that this community does. It's a distraction and a destructive influence at a time when we should be seizing the opportunity to capitalize on our valid judicial, social and legislative gains.

For those reasons, I'm uneasy and upset.

Furthermore, threads are still being deleted. Ben comes online every few days and entire threads criticizing how the Gpal situation is developing just mysteriously disappear. This is not helping the situation at all. KES, it's time to change the rules on this. You have to take drastic action to protect the community here. Ben isn't making this right. If it continues much longer it might well take down CGN itself, along with gpal, from a pr standpoint. There's too much to lose here to let Ben's experiment destroy all that you have created for us.

I implore you. Cut the cords. End gpal administrative rights in their subforum and embrace the criticism. Lend no embrace, perceived or conceived, to the notion that CGN has any complicity in the BS being perpetrated here. Ben has laid his egg, let him eat it. Don't let him take down CGN with his problem.

To Ben, make this thing right. From what you've said, you're trying. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Your companies' failures, whether your fault or not, are affecting our community in a most detrimental way. Do nothing more to entangle the CGN community in this disaster. Separate yourself and work to reconcile your business issues. If at some point you put things back on an equilibrium, rejoin us. Do not expect or enjoin us in your business issues or make us party to your problems until such time as you can represent yourself as a professional who will not embarrass our community.

Those are my two cents. Heed my advice as I've offered it or ignore it. I'm not here to pick a fight, only trying to help.

[RideIcon]

As a Calguns member I'm ashamed of what's going on here.

are you out any money? do you even have any idea whats going on here?

a few people who didn't get their money for like a month got pissed off and have started making crazy elaborate stories and posting them in the gpal forum.

so, these lies shouldn't be taken down? when people are demanding money and making crazy accusations after they have been paid, and are just here to stir the pot, that should be left up?

[Alaric]

are you out any money? do you even have any idea whats going on here?

a few people who didn't get their money for like a month got pissed off and have started making crazy elaborate stories and posting them in the gpal forum.

so, these lies shouldn't be taken down? when people are demanding money and making crazy accusations after they have been paid, and are just here to stir the pot, that should be left up?

Maybe you're not familiar with the gpal support forum, hosted here on CGN. Check it out.

ETA: Here's a good one for you.

[otalps]

Since your join date is so recent, I'm positive you weren't here for the sweepstakes. There's always a whiner somewhere (not referring to you - you weren't here) when they don't win. This is also the internet, and many people hide their identity and are not the same as they would be in person.

You might look up the past threads and see what was really said. I'm fairly sure there was no intent to scam anyone when the fundraising was done at that time - quite a while in the past.

General, not addressed to any specific person - Please don't repeat allegations unless they are known to be true. Spreading rumors is like spreading butter - pretty hard to undo.

Excuse me oh founding member of so long ago....

[Big Ryan]

are you out any money? do you even have any idea whats going on here?

a few people who didn't get their money for like a month got pissed off and have started making crazy elaborate stories and posting them in the gpal forum.

so, these lies shouldn't be taken down? when people are demanding money and making crazy accusations after they have been paid, and are just here to stir the pot, that should be left up?

I believe you sir have no idea what is going on here! Do you know how many people our out there $? Do you sir have a dog in this race? Lies, Stirring the pot? Why dont you send me a few hundred dollars of your own hard earned $ and I will hold onto it for 2-3 months and lets see what side of the fence you are on then. Wake up MAN! This is no small time deal. I imagine Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people still have not been paid. You must be a Mole for Gpal to make comments such as yours. If your not, then you sure have your story wrong.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

The GPAL police, they live inside of my head.
The GPAL police, they come to me in my thread.
The GPAL police, they're coming to arrest me, oh no.

The GPAL police, police, police
The GPAL police, police, police
The GPAL police, police, police

[gunblobber]

C'mon guys. Keep the noise down. Getting this thread locked will help nobody.

I just found something new. First I was looking at a PR News Release for GPal. That article had a link to Ben Cannon's PR Newswire Profile. It had this interesting nugget:

Additionally, Mr. Cannon is a partial owner and director of Calguns, Inc.

This would seem to contradict

In the summer of 2009 I decided I wanted to formalize CGN by means of Incorporation, the idea was put forward that a Board of Directors be created for CGN. I decided to give a BoD a trial run to see if it would both work and be more effective then a single owner.
Ben was one of the three other people who were on the trial BoD.
Near the end of 2009 I decided that CGN was better run as a sole owner entity and the trial BoD was dissolved. No paperwork was ever filed as a BoD and no ownership ever traded hands.

Kestryll - you can't rationalize this one away. This one states explicitly, partial owner of Calguns, Inc. You said yourself that no ownership ever changed hands. This profile is either a deliberate embellishment or the product of a delusional mind. Either way it is further evidence of Mr. Cannon's efforts to lend credence to himself and his company through his ties with Calguns.

One other thing... I assume you're all following the Cast Boolits thread?

Originally Posted by mcubed4130 View Post
Hmm... maybe Paul wasn't the only one who had some wool pulled over his eyes... I think Ben and I are going to have a talk.

-Michael

This was in reference to Ben's referring to himself as an employee of GeoVario, and holding the raffles/sweepstakes in GeoVario's name, when he had already left GeoVario.

[NSR500]

I never created an account with GPal. To be quite frank... I sat on the sidelines and did not want to be an early adopter.

I've been trying to steer clear from putting in my .02 about the matter, but no more. Every gun related forum I go to has got some CGN/CGF/GPal Ben Cannon discussion going. The whole fiasco is boiling like a pressure cooker about to explode. I forsee that if this is not handled well, all the good CGN, and CGF have done will be overshadowed by a dark cloud for a long time.
Something has to be done to distance CGN and CGF from Ben ASAP.

[tenpercentfirearms]

And a lot of people trusted that you and other CGF Board members would not put your name to something fly-by-night. I think it's fair to say that a decent portion of GPal's customers would not have used GPal if it had not been for your names on the "About Us" page. I know it had an influence on my own decision to use GPal to pay for a purchase. I knew Oleg Volk's name, and I also was familiar with the good work that Calguns has done in California. You did indeed lend credence to GPal. You are not to blame for GPal's problems in any way, but IMO if you lent your name to the enterprise then you should have some influence over the company in return. That influence may not be formal, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be yelling at Ben Cannon on the phone daily until he changed something.

First, GPal is not fly by night. Second, everyone who put money into GPal knew it was a new business and knew the theory was sound. We hate PayPal, GPal was a great alternative.

Now somethings beyond GPal's control have affected the company. Unfortunately GPal didn't handle it as well as they should have and they still aren't coming right out and informing their customers what is going on. We have been in discussions with Ben about this.

I suppose I could yell at Ben Cannon everyday. That I am sure is a real effective way to get things done. I am sure it motivates you to fix things beyond your control when you are yelled at everyday. That sounds real constructive.

"Issues with the ACH accounts" and "the money is there" -- none of us "little people" (GPal victims) have any proof of this, and Ben Cannon's word does not carry any weight any more. (Have you performed an audit on GPal's accounts? Have you seen the statements or logged in to the websites? Have you seen anything substantial to prove that claim, or are you just taking Ben Cannon's word for it? If you can indeed provide some kind of independent confirmation of GPal's solvency, please say so, because it would ease a lot of worrying!) "Three weeks" is a lie -- there are people in the GPal forum who have been waiting for 2 or 3 months to get their money. I personally was lied to by GPal support staff about a check that I should have received about a month ago. Still no check! How are we supposed to believe them when they say "the money is there" when we can't even believe it when they say "the check's in the mail"?

At this point it doesn't matter what anyone says. Until people get their money, they aren't going to believe anything anyway. As is evident in this thread, people will make up rumors and jump to conclusions no matter what anyone says. I suppose it is human nature.

This doesn't even begin to address the fact that GPal is not upfront with what you just stated. The ACH problems are not documented on the site, but GPal continues to take in money.

And that is quite true. However, there is this to consider. If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in.

You are a businessman. Let's say, hypothetically, that you had clerical problems with the ATF and temporarily lost your ability to transfer firearms. You are confident that the problems will be worked out, but due to the bureaucratic nature of the problem, you can't put an exact date on it. But you still have a lot of inventory and run a storefront. You can still sell accessories and other non-firearms items, and you have some customers that come in and make a purchase, get their non-firearms items, and go on their way. Would you continue to sell guns to customers and take their money, and then hold their guns indefinitely until you get your ATF problems worked out, without disclosing the problems upfront?

I might. I might not. It really doesn't matter what I say here as I could lie and say I would or I could lie and say I wouldn't. In the end what I say doesn't matter. Either people get their money or they don't (I am still waiting on my money as well).

People have been patient. And most of them would continue to be patient if there were the slightest modicum of transparency coming from GPal. All that we have is a bunch of pablum that provides no assurance whatsoever. And that's if we're lucky enough to even get an answer -- I have sent several unreturned support e-mails and made several unanswered phone calls to GPal's support line myself.

And that really is probably the largest problem here. Transparency. Many of these issues could have been avoided had transparency been used. I unfortunately don't have an answer why it wasn't used. Only Ben can answer to that.

C'mon guys. Keep the noise down. Getting this thread locked will help nobody.

I just found something new. First I was looking at a PR News Release for GPal. That article had a link to Ben Cannon's PR Newswire Profile. It had this interesting nugget:

This would seem to contradict

Kestryll - you can't rationalize this one away. This one states explicitly, partial owner of Calguns, Inc. You said yourself that no ownership ever changed hands. This profile is either a deliberate embellishment or the product of a delusional mind. Either way it is further evidence of Mr. Cannon's efforts to lend credence to himself and his company through his ties with Calguns.

One other thing... I assume you're all following the Cast Boolits thread?

This was in reference to Ben's referring to himself as an employee of GeoVario, and holding the raffles/sweepstakes in GeoVario's name, when he had already left GeoVario.

gunglobber, pay attention because you clearly aren't. Yes, there was a trial run where Calguns was going to go incorporated. That trial run failed and it was never finalized. During the trial run, Ben did correctly claim he was partial owner of Calguns, as it was a trial run. However, the final papers were never signed as part of that trial run.

Ben Cannon and Paul Nordberg are friends. They are going to have ties. Paul is not going to sell Ben down the river. So keep digging up their ties if you want, but no one is surprised. We know they are there.

Are there currently any financial ties between any of these groups? No. The entire GPal fiasco as it is now going is all on Ben Cannon. Time will tell where it goes. All this online bickering is doing absolutely nothing to getting it solved.

I believe you sir have no idea what is going on here! Do you know how many people our out there $? Do you sir have a dog in this race? Lies, Stirring the pot? Why dont you send me a few hundred dollars of your own hard earned $ and I will hold onto it for 2-3 months and lets see what side of the fence you are on then. Wake up MAN! This is no small time deal. I imagine Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people still have not been paid. You must be a Mole for Gpal to make comments such as yours. If your not, then you sure have your story wrong.

This is speculation on your part as much as anyone else's. You don't know who is out money and who isn't. I don't know either. I personally know of some people who complained to me and have since received their money in the last month. I am still waiting on mine. That is all I know and that is all I am going to say. I sure as heck am not going to make baseless claims in the name of hysteria.

And this is my general thoughts on how GPal is affecting CGF or CGN. I haven't seen a single complaint in the rifleman's forum, the FFL forum, or any of the other technical forums that are so popular here. The complaints are minor in the other forums as well. Basically, some people are wanting to make this into some giant huge deal and understandably so. If you have quite a bit of money stuck in GPal, I understand the desire to make someone pay.

However, there are many more out there that have no stake in it and don't care. They continue discussing firearms technical questions, they enjoy fighting the good fight on the political front, they enjoy watching court cases, and they enjoy furthering the Second Amendment.

Someday this GPal fiasco will end. Either GPal will pull through this and good things will come of it or they will fail and we will move on.

Again, I understand that some of you are rightfully upset and I am sorry we are in this situation.

However, Calguns.net will survive, the Calguns Foundation will keep winning cases, and we all will keep talking about guns online. As much as some people want anyone and everything related to GPal to die, it isn't going to happen. And it shouldn't be anyone's desire either. The huge amount of victories and knowledge we share on here is much more important than our financial losses at GPal.

[cj1026]

Now somethings beyond GPal's control have affected the company.
Do you know this for a fact? Do you have proof? Do tell.
Or are you just going off of Ben's word?


And that is quite true. However, there is this to consider. If GPal just stops taking money, what would happen to it? What would happen to your money? That is the quandary GPal is in.
What would happen to the money? Nothing if they are on the up and up. It would sit in an account until its withdrawn.

People here either have their blinders on or are very nieve.

[ptoguy2002]

An objective question: What percentage of the Gpal transactions are having issues?

I ask because there is a big difference between, lets say half the transactions having issues, versus 1% of the transactions having issues.

[paul0660]

We hate PayPal, GPal was a great alternative.

The WORST thing about PayPal was that IT JUST WORKED, and there was every expectation that a gun friendly clone would do the same. I guess it isn't as easy as it looks, especially when Gen X wunderkids with cereal box resumes are in charge.

What percentage of the Gpal transactions are having issues?

Either Gpal does not know (my theory: they lost data) or they don't want it known. Bad either way.

[o13102]

An objective question: What percentage of the Gpal transactions are having issues?

I ask because there is a big difference between, lets say half the transactions having issues, versus 1% of the transactions having issues.

As far as I can tell, and keep in mind the aforementioned lack of transparency, truthfulness and honesty, 99.99999% of the transactions have problems.

Oleg Volk is the only credible person I am aware of who reports that his transaction ($35) went through in the 2-7 day business period in recent memory.

Personally, mine took 45 days. As of 10/1/2010 I have been paid all the funds I was owed and have ceased using GPal.

[Jason_2111]

And a lot of people trusted that you and other CGF Board members would not put your name to something fly-by-night. I think it's fair to say that a decent portion of GPal's customers would not have used GPal if it had not been for your names on the "About Us" page. I know it had an influence on my own decision to use GPal to pay for a purchase. I knew Oleg Volk's name, and I also was familiar with the good work that Calguns has done in California. You did indeed lend credence to GPal. You are not to blame for GPal's problems in any way, but IMO if you lent your name to the enterprise then you should have some influence over the company in return. That influence may not be formal, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be yelling at Ben Cannon on the phone daily until he changed something.

This holds true for me as well. Being sort of okie-dokie'd by the higher ups here at CGN gave GPal a level of credibility for me, so I even looked to help out by recommending to Ben in a PM to look into advertising GPal's service in the Martial Arts community, because PayPal treats martial arts weapons the same way they treat guns.
I was totally wrong to do so though, and have since sent out word to the weapons makers and dojo owners that I know to specifically NOT use GPal after my very first transaction turned into a big snafu.

[eaglemike]

Excuse me oh founding member of so long ago....

I appreciate your positive contribution....... BTW, I never said I was a founding member. I have made many contributions since I've been here, including volunteering my time. I was merely pointing out it's unlikely the poster could be familiar with the sweepstakes setup.

It's easy for a person to mis-represent a situation, especially when they have an agenda. I think one or more of the posters in this thread have an agenda other than a positive resolution of the GPal situation.

IMHO we should all be hoping for a positive resolution of the GPal situation, for several reasons.

Clear?