GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[Matt C]

But you can't, because they're deleted...

So... that kind of proves the point doesn't it?

Fair enough.

[ptoguy2002]

It been said by several others: "I have no dog in this fight" but after reading a lot of the hub hub, I will add my two cents and then step back:

-CGN (advertising dollars) and in part CGF (think big Larue donation), rely heavily on vendors / companies, some of whom probably have been burned by this, and others no doubt have taken notice. Long term issues here...
-CGN and CGF do rely on "The People" to a large extent to make them what they are, and to make them as successful as they are. Long term issues here...
-There is an indisputable intermingling of people and resources (Gpal board on CGN, moto racing) between CGN, CGF, and Gpal, that doesn't look good to an outsider.
-The solution to the problem is simple, sever the ties, and let it be known. That is all you can do, and is all that a reasonable person can expect. Maybe some short term hub hub, but your long term issues are fixed.

CG need to swallow their pride, accept the issue for what it is, and sever the ties.

[the_quark]

-The solution to the problem is simple, sever the ties, and let it be known. That is all you can do, and is all that a reasonable person can expect. Maybe some short term hub hub, but your long term issues are fixed.

I'm saying this as many times and places as I can, but from CGF's perspective, we severed the ties back in February. We had some board members who continued to be on the GPal advisory board (which, to be clear, was an unremunerated position with no power). As far as I'm aware, that board has been dissolved.

Beyond that, everyone keeps running around in a panic saying CGF needs to "distance" themselves from Ben. As I said before, I can't quit a job I don't have.

I've seen three basic suggestions for what CGF should do to "distance" itself from GPal:

First, we should "denounce" GPal and/or Ben. I'm sorry, but I don't really know more about what's going on here than I read on these boards, that you do. I think it would be unfair at best for me to publicly accuse Ben and/or GPal of malfeasance. There are some well-documented problems he's had and continues to have. Were I to accuse him of more than simply having some ongoing PR problems (which is obviously an objective fact), I believe I would potentially open myself or the Foundation to a libel lawsuit.

Second, we should toss Kes off the board and sever all ties with CGN. I think this is extreme, and it's hard to imagine CGF ever severing its relationship with CGN. It's our home, and the members of CGN are who we were incorporated to serve.

Third, we should lead a lawsuit against GPal from all the people who are owed money. I think this is the most "out there" suggestion, of all. People donated money to us to help bring forward gun rights in California, not in order to try to recover money at GPal. Doing that would cost a lot of money and effort, and I'd think many of our donors would be rightfully angry if we spent their money on this.

That's the net of the suggestions I've gotten for what we should be doing that we're not. If you have another suggestion, I'm open to listen. Other than that, I'll keep repeating that Ben isn't a part of CGF, hasn't been for eight months, and I don't know how more I can "distance" him from us than that.

[gunblobber]

I'm saying this as many times and places as I can, but from CGF's perspective, we severed the ties back in February. We had some board members who continued to be on the GPal advisory board (which, to be clear, was an unremunerated position with no power). As far as I'm aware, that board has been dissolved.

Beyond that, everyone keeps running around in a panic saying CGF needs to "distance" themselves from Ben. As I said before, I can't quit a job I don't have.

I've seen three basic suggestions for what CGF should do to "distance" itself from GPal:

First, we should "denounce" GPal and/or Ben. I'm sorry, but I don't really know more about what's going on here than I read on these boards, that you do. I think it would be unfair at best for me to publicly accuse Ben and/or GPal of malfeasance. There are some well-documented problems he's had and continues to have. Were I to accuse him of more than simply having some ongoing PR problems (which is obviously an objective fact), I believe I would potentially open myself or the Foundation to a libel lawsuit.

Second, we should toss Kes off the board and sever all ties with CGN. I think this is extreme, and it's hard to imagine CGF ever severing its relationship with CGN. It's our home, and the members of CGN are who we were incorporated to serve.

Third, we should lead a lawsuit against GPal from all the people who are owed money. I think this is the most "out there" suggestion, of all. People donated money to us to help bring forward gun rights in California, not in order to try to recover money at GPal. Doing that would cost a lot of money and effort, and I'd think many of our donors would be rightfully angry if we spent their money on this.

That's the net of the suggestions I've gotten for what we should be doing that we're not. If you have another suggestion, I'm open to listen. Other than that, I'll keep repeating that Ben isn't a part of CGF, hasn't been for eight months, and I don't know how more I can "distance" him from us than that.

My suggestion is to distance yourself, not by denouncing Ben Cannon or GPal, but by simply stating that the ties were severed in February, in a public location where GPal customers are likely to see it instead of repeatedly posting it in threads like this one. A sticky at the top of the GPal forum would be a great start! Maybe a small note somewhere on the CGF homepage as well. It doesn't have to be a press release or anything big like that, but a small page stating the same stuff that you have already posted here and elsewhere, regarding Ben Cannon's history with CGF (scrubbing anything that might reflect poorly on Ben, if you feel the need) and stating that CGF has no influence over Ben Cannon or GPal and therefore has no responsibility for the any problems at GPal.

I can see your point that you "can't quit a job you don't have," but given that CGF Board members' names (and thus the reputation of CGF itself) were effectively used to advertise GPal, and given that GPal has made no effort to change that aside from removing the "About Us" page -- and while the word "Calguns" still appears twice on the GPal front page -- I think it is not out of line to have something on your site stating the simple facts, without being accusatory or defamatory.

EDIT: I see that my thread in the GPal forum has been stickied. Thank you to whoever did that. I would ask that you also lock it, as my guess is that will it garner comments which will require moderation, and I would not like to see the thread deleted.

[Farquaad]

I think the problem you have and will continue to have is that its all "Calguns." Honestly before this whole fiasco I had no idea there was a difference between CGN and CGF and I've lurked around here for years. I may not be particularly observant but if that fact can escape me then it could certainly escape someone who is ticked off and wants their money. My solution to that, idk, hopefully you guys are smarter than I and can mitigate this thing. Gunblobbers ideas don't seam too radical. I have said before and will say again that I believe Ben Cannon has been given liberties on this subject and defense from members of CGN that looks very poor in many peoples eyes after how people have been treated by Gpal, and GpalVP in particular on this board.It may be a PR problem for GPal but for whatever reason GPal has chosen to make their vendor section on CGN ground zero for their issues, and that brings bad press and angry people to CGN. As I said before, to the outside world its all Calguns.

[gunblobber]

(bunch of stuff about raffles and servers)

In the interest of fairness, and to provide an update for those who do not follow the Cast Boolits thread as I do, mcubed just posted this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1020368&postcount=2215

Ok following up on my own follow up... As I stated previously - not a single one of those sweepstakes tickets were run through a GeoVario LLC account. Anyone who participated in that should be able to verify by looking at their own bank or credit card statements - I don't know myself as I never participated in any of them - sorry I never liked Ben's gun collection ( or the others he had donated for the cause ) but I'd be willing to bet the name on the transaction was CDGlobal.

Anyway - when Ben was at GeoVario one of his duties was to procure hardware that he and I agreed we wanted used for the hosting services; i.e. servers, switches, firewalls, spares ( mem, hard drives, etc... )

I did speak briefly with Ben today - no he didn't threaten He laughed - and told me if I was concerned - go look at the hardware leasing paperwork.

Well, seems that I will need to do some digging to find out exact numbers - but in short - more hardware landed on my teams shoulders to build, test, burn-in, deploy, etc... than GeoVario is actually paying leasing payments for.

If I were to take a guess from memory what I know has been deployed, upgraded, repaired, replaced, etc... Off the cuff - at least 6 servers, and roughly 100GB of ram, and probably a dozen or so multi-core CPUs... all appear to been provided to GeoVario - that GeoVario did not get any bill for.

Now this doesn't explain any of Ben's odd remarks of saying he owned the servers privately - or whatever about CGN specific servers. As at no-time was I ever handed anything and told "this is for CGN only".

But what he did - absolutely reduced GeoVario's capital and run-time expenses. As I - and probably many other CGNer's remember times when Calguns servers melted their CPUs; blew disks or memory modules ( raid/ecc memory - works but it slows down the machines ). And therefore his contributions no matter how oddly executed did greatly enhance GeoVario's ability to deliver on it's promise to host Calguns.net for free.

It seems that there are servers at GeoVario that mcubed did not know about, and that they were provided by Ben Cannon. The connection with the raffles is not 100% known, but the servers are there. IMO, any organization that takes donations to pay for expenses should be upfront and fully accountable for where the donated money goes. Nonetheless, this is some good news in Ben Cannon's favor.

I also have some good news with regard to my own situation with GPal. My credit card company reported today that my account has been credited. Interestingly, the credit comes from "THE CANNON GROUP OF COMPANIES" whereas the original bill showed up as "GUNPAL.COM". The Cannon Group of Companies, Inc. shows up on the California Secretary of State's website as having "Suspended" status (GPal, Inc. shows up as "Active"). I don't know what to make of that, but I am glad to have my money back.

Also, thanks to Kestryll and the mod staff for stickying the thread that I made in the GPal forum. I feel that it will help the situation, if only just a bit (I just hope it does not get spammed/trolled/etc.... I would not have a problem with it being locked so that further comments cannot be added. Not my decision to make - I'm just sayin', I'd be fine with it.). It was always part of my goal here to distribute truthful information to the widest audience possible. A stickied thead at the top of the GPal forum was always my first request/suggestion. That has happened now, and I'm not one to press my luck. I'm sure you're sick of hearing from me, so I will likely stop posting here -- at least not as much. That thread may not help anybody get their money back any faster, but it will help them understand the situation better, and possibly direct their angry energies in a more productive manner.

[ptoguy2002]

Quark:
I understand what you are saying. Perhaps an official press release, something tangible, that can be circulated in all these threads on all the different boards, saying that no ties exist.

The link between Gpal and CGF, goes through CGN though, IMHO. CGN needs to do something more substantial.

As for Kes, I don't think that would be needed, BUT Kes needs to do something to show he and CGN are on the right side. Remove Gpals vendor And sub forum admin status, his own press release, official condemnation of Gpal (put them on cash in advance advertising terms, or something like that if libel is a concern), whatever else, but some real action.

->the status quo can not be maintained in this situation
and any personal relationships with Ben Cannon that may exist need to be overlooked. Ben should understand this. If he doesn't, then he's not worth it anyway.

[AJAX22]

I don't think a press release would be advisable.

A letter from cgf, a letter from kes and a letter from gpal clarifying the nature of their relationship would be better.

Although at this point it has already been clarified pretty damn well in my opinion...

[JTROKS]

I have a problem with GPal. When I first heard of GPal I thought it was a great idea due to the current anti-gun service that PayPal applies to their customers. Then I saw the CALGUNS logo on the GPal website and that made up my mind to utilize GPal instead of PayPal. Well folks, up to now I'm still out of $638 that I initiated a withdrawal sometime mid September that GPal says they have completed the transaction on. I was hoping GPal can still be salvaged, they just need to give people the money they owe them, it's that simple. BUT I'm thinking it is not that simple when the funds aren't there anymore. Someone is going to jail.

[ptoguy2002]

I don't think a press release would be advisable.

A letter from cgf, a letter from kes and a letter from gpal clarifying the nature of their relationship would be better.

Although at this point it has already been clarified pretty damn well in my opinion...

"press release" is probably bad terminology yeah

any clarifications have been diluted or argued over
harder to argue with a scanned letter on letterhead, and no doubts about who it is and where it came from

eta and tell gpal to remove any calguns logos

[cadillacmike]

I have a problem with GPal. ... Well folks, up to now I'm still out of $638 that I initiated a withdrawal sometime mid September that GPal says they have completed the transaction on. I was hoping GPal can still be salvaged, they just need to give people the money they owe them, it's that simple. BUT I'm thinking it is not that simple when the funds aren't there anymore. Someone is going to jail.

It hasn't been proven that the funds aren't there any more. It would be really bad if that turns out to be the case, but it's not known at present.

[tcrpe]

It hasn't been proven that the funds aren't there any more.

Everything so far points in that direction.

[JTROKS]

It hasn't been proven that the funds aren't there any more. It would be really bad if that turns out to be the case, but it's not known at present.

Also not a bright idea when you're messing with gunowners.

[mcubed4130]

Hello everyone. As some of you know - I've been trying to answer as many questions about GeoVario LLC as possible.

If I missed anything - please let me know.

Also as some of you know - GeoVario is not my only company, job or responsibility, I am certainly one of those burning the candle at all ends guys - so if you need something quickly - please call or email me.

--
Michael Miyabara-McCaskey
General Manager, GeoVario LLC
Redundant Cluster Web and Application Hosting

https://www.geovario.com

p.800-208-5510 ext 646
f.408-728-6047

[JTROKS]

Hello everyone. As some of you know - I've been trying to answer as many questions about GeoVario LLC as possible.

If I missed anything - please let me know.

Also as some of you know - GeoVario is not my only company, job or responsibility, I am certainly one of those burning the candle at all ends guys - so if you need something quickly - please call or email me.

--
Michael Miyabara-McCaskey
General Manager, GeoVario LLC
Redundant Cluster Web and Application Hosting

https://www.geovario.com

p.800-208-5510 ext 646
f.408-728-6047

So I'm getting you're affiliated if not one of the co-founders of Gunpal/Gpal? Can you tell me what is the status of getting our money back?