Preventable Tragedy

[Win231]

Some freedom loving Chinese people unencumbered by oppressive EPA regulations!

Gee, what a great place to breathe......

Another result of more freedom & less regulations: I remember several years ago there was an earthquake in China & a day-care center collapsed, killing many children. The builders got away with many unsafe shortcuts, which led to the collapse & deaths. When crying parents were at the scene with signs about the lack of regulations, police showed up & arrested them.

[baggss]

So the law is pointless. My front door is locked. Any child entering my house without my supervision has committed a crime. There is no forseeable way that any child would legally enter my house unsupervised.

BINGO!

You guys keep looking at our safe storage law through a straw. To quote George Carlin, "think about how stupid the average person is, then remember half the people in the world are dumber than that!"

Got it. Your premise is your smarter than we are.

Agreed. But whenever this subject comes up, some people have trouble focusing on the real issue - which is foolishly allowing children access to firearms. Instead, some gun owners jump on the "No one tells me how to store my gun" or "I don't need a law" bandwagon.

Well, intelligent people DON'T need a law to store guns responsibly, but in the general population, not everyone will be intelligent. For those individuals, I have no problem with a law. Children need to be protected from foolish parents.

So you, like chuck, think you are smarter than the rest of us. Yeah, make ssenes.

Been to China. Its bad, but no worse than downtown SF or NYC.

The reality distortion field is strong with Chuck. Your real life experiences mean nothing, he's smarter than you. If you don't believe me, just ask him. He will fight you, or just post, to the death to prove it.

I recently looked at the 2014 (latest year avail.) CDC statistics regarding unintentional firearm deaths of all kids age 0-15. The number was 58!

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

A whopping 58! Jesus H Christ on a cracker, we need more regulations! IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN (ALL 58 OF THEM)!

[tbc]

Preventable Tragedy

Only 440,000 deaths per year

Medical errors ranked third in the nation as cause of deaths.

https://www.justice.org/what-we-do/advocate-civil-justice-system/issue-advocacy/medical-errors

Folks, we need to stop making judgement based on emotion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DoubleTap76]

I remember at four years old, I stumbled upon a .357 resting on a table in a children's play room.

I was shocked and mesmerized.

I then retrieved an adult (the homeowner) and brought it to their attention. He grabbed it and said "it's only a toy!"

I ran off and had fun with it the rest of the afternoon.

[ChuckDizzle]

BINGO!



Got it. Your premise is your smarter than we are.




So you, like chuck, think you are smarter than the rest of us. Yeah, make ssenes.



The reality distortion field is strong with Chuck. Your real life experiences mean nothing, he's smarter than you. If you don't believe me, just ask him. He will fight you, or just post, to the death to prove it.




A whopping 58! Jesus H Christ on a cracker, we need more regulations! IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN (ALL 58 OF THEM)!

Yes, I'm smarter than a guy who thinks motorcycle helmet laws don't save lives when it is demonstrably clear they do. Yes, I'm smarter than the guy who thinks environmental regulations don't impact air quality when I've objectively demonstrated they do.

Sad to say it, I'm also smarter than the guy who thinks telling kids not to do something is as effective as making it impossible for them to do something. I'm smarter than the guy who thinks raising his own kid "right" means that other people would do the same.

I'm smarter than every person in here who erroneously assumed I argued for new gun laws without reading the thread.

[Lone_Gunman]

Yes, I'm smarter than a guy who thinks motorcycle helmet laws don't save lives when it is demonstrably clear they do. Yes, I'm smarter than the guy who thinks environmental regulations don't impact air quality when I've objectively demonstrated they do.

Sad to say it, I'm also smarter than the guy who thinks telling kids not to do something is as effective as making it impossible for them to do something. I'm smarter than the guy who thinks raising his own kid "right" means that other people would do the same.

I'm smarter than every person in here who erroneously assumed I argued for new gun laws without reading the thread.

But are you smarter than the guy who knows the risks, and wants the freedom to make his own decision regarding helmet use? Are you smarter than the guy who thinks the EPA is out of control, and using its power with a political motive, and should be disbanded, or severely limited? Are you smarter than the guy who raises his kids how he sees fit, and thinks it's none of your god damn business whether he allows his children access to firearms? Those are the people you're advocating control over, just as much as the rest of the population.

[ChuckDizzle]

But are you smarter than the guy who knows the risks, and wants the freedom to make his own decision regarding helmet use? Are you smarter than the guy who thinks the EPA is out of control, and using its power with a political motive, and should be disbanded, or severely limited? Are you smarter than the guy who raises his kids how he sees fit, and thinks it's none of your god damn business whether he allows his children access to firearms? Those are the people you're advocating control over, just as much as the rest of the population.

Those are all nuanced issues worth discussion. But pretending the EPA doesn't have some positive impact on our environment, or that OSHA hasn't improved any workplace safety is simply absurd.

The problem with the "mind your own business" idea is that we live in a world where the consequences of negligence often cause harm to those who have done no wrong. Again, think of the biggest scumbag you know, now accept that there are worse people out there with kids who don't secure their arms or raise their kids to respect firearms. Is that scumbag really free from fault if his kid kills yours cuz freedom?

[Win231]

So you, like chuck, think you are smarter than the rest of us. Yeah, make ssenes.

Priceless!

[dwalker]

Yes, I'm smarter than a guy who thinks motorcycle helmet laws don't save lives when it is demonstrably clear they do. Yes, I'm smarter than the guy who thinks environmental regulations don't impact air quality when I've objectively demonstrated they do.

Sad to say it, I'm also smarter than the guy who thinks telling kids not to do something is as effective as making it impossible for them to do something. I'm smarter than the guy who thinks raising his own kid "right" means that other people would do the same.

I'm smarter than every person in here who erroneously assumed I argued for new gun laws without reading the thread.

The fact that you think that, proves t me you are the dumbest person I have seen on the intrawebz today.

[jeremiah12]

I was going to stay out of this. The one thing missing is how many pre-teens and teens have used guns to protect themselves and siblings when their parents were not at home?

A few weeks ago there was the 11 year old boy in FL.

This case was a 4 year old girl. Dad in no way should have left the gun out where she could access it.

When I was 12, if I did not have a gun available, my siblings and I might not have survived the evening that a group of thugs decided to take their revenge on us for my mother constantly calling the police on their illegal activities. Mom was working that night.

For those of you who are fortunate enough to live in relatively safe neighborhoods or can afford to have someone look after your kids all the time, you are blessed. What about the single parent who has to work and leave the kids at home in a not so safe neighborhood. The oldest is responsible and knows how to use the gun. Do you still keep it locked away and hope they will be safe or do you give the oldest access to it?

If you have one that cannot be trusted, you need to either move your guns out of the house or have an adult at home with that child at all times. A lock box will not stop a determined child from accessing the gun. A determined teen will figure out how to get the combination to the safe. If it is an electronic keypad, they probably already know someone at school or on the net that can tell them how to defeat it. They will know someone that knows someone that knows someone that can get the information off of the Dark Net.

Responsible parents do what they need to do. No law will ever get the irresponsible parents to change.

BTW, all children are supposed to wear helmets while skateboarding or bicycling. Where I live, very few do and even fewer get ticketed. The police are too busy dealing with just the violent crimes.

My dad refuses to wear a seat belt. He has never worn one. He has never been ticketed for that. Every day I see many drivers texting and driving. I see CHP and other LEOs passing by them without pulling them over.

We have more laws than can be enforced. It is time to stop worrying about nanny laws that try to keep stupid people safe. If someone wants to ride their motorcycle without a helmet, let them. If they are in an accident and get horribly injured, that is their problem. If it was the fault of the other person, well, the motorcyclist did not take precautions to lessen the injuries so is responsible for his own head injuries. If it results in death, then it was his own fault and his family cannot file suit for any sort of damages.

Finally, everyone needs to stop arguing with Chuck, he is just like the progressives. There ought to be a law to protect everyone from everything.

[Lone_Gunman]

Those are all nuanced issues worth discussion. But pretending the EPA doesn't have some positive impact on our environment, or that OSHA hasn't improved any workplace safety is simply absurd.

The problem with the "mind your own business" idea is that we live in a world where the consequences of negligence often cause harm to those who have done no wrong. Again, think of the biggest scumbag you know, now accept that there are worse people out there with kids who don't secure their arms or raise their kids to respect firearms. Is that scumbag really free from fault if his kid kills yours cuz freedom?

You are arguing straw men. I didn't say the EPA and OSHA hadn't had an impact.

Can you make your argument without resorting to the "it's for the children" argument?

The consequences of negligence have caused harm to innocents since the beginning of time. It's nothing new to the modern world. The world is a cruel place, and nature is a killer. The problem is that modern man can't come to terms with that, and is trying to legislate himself into immortality. All. People. Die. Some too soon, and some, frankly, too late. Life is unsafe, and no number of laws is ever going to change that.

[baggss]

Can you make your argument without resorting to the "it's for the children" argument?

Is that a rhetorical question? I ask because he clearly can not.

Finally, everyone needs to stop arguing with Chuck, he is just like the progressives. There ought to be a law to protect everyone from everything.

I don't think he is "just like"....I suspect he IS.....he knows what's best for all of us, we just don't understand that.

Ya know, guns are ok as long as long people (well, everyone but him and his "friends") do with them exactly as they are told, never take them out, don't carry them in public and lord knows no one needs more than 10 rounds in a magazine for anything. Everything must be regulated because the masses, I.E the rest of us, are too stupid to not hurt themselves or others in their everyday lives without Chuck and his ilk keeping us safe from harm with laws for every nuance of life that just might be even slightly dangerous. I'm sure he is looking forward to the day when they CAN just come into your house and check and see that you are "living right" by their standards and that your guns are all locked up in case a child comes within 5 miles of your otherwise childless houehold. I'm sure he's just waiting to be part of that "Village" that Hillary wrote about in her book. Individuals taking responsibility for themselves and their families? BAH, we don't need that, the government and all of their laws can keep us safe from everything. Chuck and the rest of his progressive kind will make sure of it....IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN DAMN IT!!

People like him are why we can't have the 2A in CA.

[leadstorm]

Agreed. But whenever this subject comes up, some people have trouble focusing on the real issue - which is foolishly allowing children access to firearms. Instead, some gun owners jump on the "No one tells me how to store my gun" or "I don't need a law" bandwagon.

Well, intelligent people DON'T need a law to store guns responsibly, but in the general population, not everyone will be intelligent. For those individuals, I have no problem with a law. Children need to be protected from foolish parents.

So you think that a maximum sentence of 16 months (or 2-3 years...not sure what drives the difference in sentencing there) and $10k would dissuade someone whose actions aren't swayed by the thought of a child's (or their child's) brain matter splattered on the living room ceiling?

Stop using the phrase "common sense," and start using the term "societal norm." Yes, millions of people were raised in the US with open gun racks and/or glass-cased rifle cabinets in their homes. Kids weren't dying in droves by accidental discharge then, and kids aren't fundamentally different now in the way they process information. It is the societal norm now, however, for gun owners to have safes today instead of racks and cabinets. The detractors to your ideas simply don't agree with the societal norm and would prefer to manage their own risk independently. Liberty's a beotch like that.

[baekacaek]

But are you smarter than the guy who knows the risks, and wants the freedom to make his own decision regarding helmet use? Are you smarter than the guy who thinks the EPA is out of control, and using its power with a political motive, and should be disbanded, or severely limited? Are you smarter than the guy who raises his kids how he sees fit, and thinks it's none of your god damn business whether he allows his children access to firearms? Those are the people you're advocating control over, just as much as the rest of the population.

I think whether or not someone wears helmet and how a person raises his kids are pretty different. If a person didn't wear a helmet because he assessed the risks and made a choice for himself not to, oh well that's his choice and life. Let him do whatever he wants to do. But when it comes to parenting, it involves another life. As an extreme example, if I wanted to severely beat my kids because that's how I like to raise them, shouldn't the government intervene on the kid's behalf? Or is it my damn business and I can do whatever I want? I think they do. For all domestic violence incidents, I think the government should intervene because we are now talking about two parties where one is a victim.

I'm not saying we should have laws mandating firearm storage at private properties. But I do think how you raise your kid, to a certain extent, is government's business.

[ScottsBad]

Those are all nuanced issues worth discussion. But pretending the EPA doesn't have some positive impact on our environment, or that OSHA hasn't improved any workplace safety is simply absurd.

The problem with the "mind your own business" idea is that we live in a world where the consequences of negligence often cause harm to those who have done no wrong. Again, think of the biggest scumbag you know, now accept that there are worse people out there with kids who don't secure their arms or raise their kids to respect firearms. Is that scumbag really free from fault if his kid kills yours cuz freedom?

The problem with your argument is that there is no limit once you start down the "do gooder" slope. We have all seen the effect of where the progression of regulations take us. Gun laws are one of the most obvious example of a slippery slope.

So let's say the Gov. makes a law to keep all guns in a locked box when not on your person as you advocate. After a couple of years there are still children dying from accidental gun shots. What next? Well, someone might suggest that the Gov. come to your house to inspect your storage. Or - They might suggest that guns be disassembled and locked.

Where does it stop? Just one more law? Isn't this the whole argument of the gun control people, just close the loopholes. These are not loopholes, they are our freedoms.

There are dangers associated with freedom and liberty.

You should go watch Logan's Run again. There is no danger, no individualism, and there are no concerns in that world. It is a utopia, the same one the Statist Authoritarians wish to impose on everybody eventually.

Even innocent people want to live in a free world, if they are somehow killed or injured it is the price of freedom. Free people HAVE to be smart people, slaves do not.