Preventable Tragedy

[ChuckDizzle]

I have been to China several times, and am scheduled to go again end of June but likely will not make it. So I kinda believe what I have SEEN with my own eyes in Shenzhen and Beijing rather than what the media wishes me to see.



If a kid never gets access to a gun then he will never learn to respect it. Never learn what happens when it goes bang. You have just illustrated why that sign is a bad, bad, idea. Education is the key, not hiding things away. From the sound of it my 5 year old could give yu a lesson in gun safety and handling... but I digress.



Right, they are rare because normal parents teach ther kids abut guns and at least try to be good parents. We cannot rely on legislation for 1% that has the ability to effect everyone.



I think we have identified your issue, and that is you want someone to pay. If your kid who has NEVER been allowed to even look at a gun and they have always been locked in a safe decides to get froggy because Dads not home and had a lapse of judgement, left a gun out, and that kid gets that gun out and shows his friends and some kid gets shot and killed, you feel like you should go to jail for that. Thats what I am hearing? Right?

Wrong.

So lets put this another way. Your kid gets into your liquor cabinet and gets abunch of kids to drink with him and one dies of alcohol poisoning. You going to jail?

Or how about your 15yr old kid with a learners permit takes your keys and decides to drive around the block a few times and kills the crazy cat lady down the street. You going to jail?

Or your 15 year old kid gets hopped up on pills from your ed cabinet and booze from your liqour cabinet and takes your car to give a bunch of 14year old girls a ride to a mall and crashes into a minivan and kills a mother and three kids. You going to jail?

Seriously Chuck, you need to re-examine a lot of your views.

And I think 71 Musty was in agreement that no, in fact, my kid will NOT be allowed to have hid friend roaming around my house, and they will NOT be allowed in my house if a parent isnt home Thats how all this crap starts and is BAD PARENTING. It is not a trust issue, I trust my kid to do what is right, but I cannot speak for YOUR effed up kid who has never seen a gun outside of a safe, and who may have mental issues as yet unidentified. Its people who "trust" thier kids to have friends over who end up with pregnant 14 year olds and rape allegations and the smell of pot throughout the house.

Be a parent for the love of Christ and stop counting on anyone else to be one for you.

Right, you trust your kid with guns but not to have friends over when you aren't there?

Also motorcycle helmets don't protect your head and China has no air quality issues.

I'm sorry you are delusional. I can't have a rational discussion with someone as wilfully ignorant as yourself good luck.

[solislbc]

https://waqi.info/

lol, what is it like to live in your own reality?

Wow. whats up with san berdo???

[ChuckDizzle]

Wow. whats up with san berdo???

Fire nearby?

[dwalker]

Right, you trust your kid with guns but not to have friends over when you aren't there?

Also motorcycle helmets don't protect your head and China has no air quality issues.

I'm sorry you are delusional. I can't have a rational discussion with someone as wilfully ignorant as yourself good luck.

Are you serious Chuck? MY kid knows how to handle firearms and I trust him to do what is right. I do not trust your kid. And what parent in thier right mind is OK with kids having other kids over when they arent there? THAT is delusional.

China has air quality issues but have you been to SF lately? Smells like a sewer and there is literally human feces on the sidewalks because apparently its OK to just drop trou and do your business on the sidewalks.
BTW smart guy, China knows they have issues and thus leads the world in clean air industrial technology and as they implement it will likely have the cleanest air around. However, they are not passing silly laws about hairspray or deodorants and putting the issue off on thier citizens but rather making industry step up, which is what it should do.Their manufacturing is being forcced to update and comply with ever increasing quidelines and implement technology that we do not even have here. Here in the US its reversed, our .gov leaves the industry and itself out of the blame game and instead makes it societies issue.

No one said motorcycle helmets dont protect people, what I said was helmet LAWS do not protect people. Are you so small minded you cannot tell the difference? Or do you prefer to just keep on with your somewhat crude ad hominem attacks? Because LAWS do not and never have protected anyone.

Seriously Chuck, since you apparently missed it:

I think we have identified your issue, and that is you want someone to pay. If your kid who has NEVER been allowed to even look at a gun and they have always been locked in a safe decides to get froggy because Dads not home and had a lapse of judgement, left a gun out, and that kid gets that gun out and shows his friends and some kid gets shot and killed, you feel like you should go to jail for that. Thats what I am hearing? Right?

Wrong.

So lets put this another way. Your kid gets into your liquor cabinet and gets abunch of kids to drink with him and one dies of alcohol poisoning. You going to jail?

Or how about your 15yr old kid with a learners permit takes your keys and decides to drive around the block a few times and kills the crazy cat lady down the street. You going to jail?

Or your 15 year old kid gets hopped up on pills from your ed cabinet and booze from your liqour cabinet and takes your car to give a bunch of 14year old girls a ride to a mall and crashes into a minivan and kills a mother and three kids. You going to jail?

Feel free to justify why a guy who leaves a gun out on his bedside table is any more liable for what a kid does with it than you leaving liquor in your liquor cabinet, pills in the med cabinet, or your car keys by the door. Dont worry, I will wait why you figure out how to justify your liberal touchy feely views.

[Doheny]

Preventable Tragedy

Agree with original post but don't make a law to fix stupid.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty much every state has a law re: keeping guns from kids. Even Texas, who everybody says has such awesome guns laws has such a law. Interesting enough, you can't be arrested in Texas before the 7th day if the kid is killed.



Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.

(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.

(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

(1) failed to secure the firearm; or

(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;

(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;

(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or

(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

(1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and

(2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

.

[FAS1]

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

You can be held responsible, but there is no storage law mandating how you store your gun. They don't have to be locked up like in CA.

[ScottsBad]

These people are the same types who refuse to wear seatbelts because they insist they will be thrown free from the wreckage and survive with scrapes.

The fact we needed to make laws regarding seatbelts, child safety seats, and storing firearms shows just how willfully ignorant many people are.

I think you are so used to the nanny state that you've come believe in authoritarianism.

You're advocating that the Government make laws telling gun owners to keep their guns locked up like the San Francisco law that says you must have the gun on your person or locked up?

That is ridiculous, it takes a perp 1.5 seconds to go 15 feet. What lock box can you open and get your gun out and ready to shoot in 1.5 seconds. You'll be lucky if you can grab a gun in that time.

Lets say it takes 5 seconds for a bad guy to bust in your door and run to the room you are in. If it is in any type of locked container you are dead. So what is the point of having a firearm.

If it has to be in a locked box you might as well just keep a baseball bat and save yourself the money on a gun, training and ammunition.

Keep your kids away from my house and your nose out of my business.

[ScottsBad]

Agreed. But whenever this subject comes up, some people have trouble focusing on the real issue - which is foolishly allowing children access to firearms. Instead, some gun owners jump on the "No one tells me how to store my gun" or "I don't need a law" bandwagon.

Well, intelligent people DON'T need a law to store guns responsibly, but in the general population, not everyone will be intelligent. For those individuals, I have no problem with a law. Children need to be protected from foolish parents.

I totally disagree, there are already laws regarding children getting access to guns. How is another law going to change things.? It is the same argument as gun control, "just one more law will stop all the senseless killing." You recognize the stupidity of that, but you do not recognize that these laws cannot stop children from getting access to guns.

Just like there will always be criminals getting access to guns, there will always be irresponsible people and there will always be accidents.

It is the price of liberty.

[Lone_Gunman]

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
C. S. Lewis



And China is a communist country where every aspect of their life is regulated by the government. How's that working out for them...?

[baekacaek]

Gun owning parents need to seriously consider the what if's. That not all kids are the same, and there is a chance that your kid's curiosity with the easily accessible gun might be the end of his life. And thinking kids can be disciplined 100% is just pure fantasy. Kids these days are very different than kids 50 years ago. Please keep guns away from kids as a precaution, much like how we preach and follow the 4 safety rules.

[Lone_Gunman]

Agreed. But whenever this subject comes up, some people have trouble focusing on the real issue - which is foolishly allowing children access to firearms. Instead, some gun owners jump on the "No one tells me how to store my gun" or "I don't need a law" bandwagon.

Well, intelligent people DON'T need a law to store guns responsibly, but in the general population, not everyone will be intelligent. For those individuals, I have no problem with a law. Children need to be protected from foolish parents.

It's for their own good right? They are too stupid to manage, and need someone smart like you to tell them how to live. What's your cut off, IQ wise, to having to abide by the diktats of others? Top 10% of the population? Top 1%? Maybe the top .05%? I'm curious, who is smart enough to make their own choices, and who is smart enough to dictate how you live?

[baekacaek]

Agree.

2 in 10 are kids under age 14.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...factsheet.html

Wow, that's pretty bad. Im not sure why the mainstream media enjoys demonizing guns so much. It's as if a single death caused by a gun is more newsworthy and popular than five deaths caused by drowning. Pretty twisted IMO

[baekacaek]

Would your kid run out in front of a car? I mean, you taught them to look both ways right? How about drinking bleach? Do your kids make a habit of guzzling Downy when you arent home? Course not, because you taught them that it will hurt them and could kill them.

I think guns are different, because of the "cool-factor" portrayed by the media. An average kid in this decade is more likely to want to touch and play with a gun than to guzzle Downy. As many posters have pointed out already, your kid may be fine. But you have no control over your friend's kid who comes over. And your kid's friends may be used to playing ZombieShooters or some gun-related mobile game on his dad's phone and has an uncontrollable curiosity in wanting to handle a real gun in real life.

[baekacaek]

https://waqi.info/

lol, what is it like to live in your own reality?

I learn something new each day on these forums. China is insane!!!!

[FAS1]

Wow, that's pretty bad. Im not sure why the mainstream media enjoys demonizing guns so much. It's as if a single death caused by a gun is more newsworthy and popular than five deaths caused by drowning. Pretty twisted IMO

I recently looked at the 2014 (latest year avail.) CDC statistics regarding unintentional firearm deaths of all kids age 0-15. The number was 58!

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html