Single Shot Exemption Explanation/Database Thread

[lugnutwrench]

I've been in a gun shop (who shall remain unnamed) in the Temecula area recently with a friend of mine who wants a SA XDM. I explained to him that the only way to get one in CA is to either buy one from a private party or to go to a shop that does SSE conversions.

One of the sales associates overheard our conversation and he gave me the information below:

1. We should be careful about SSE pistols because a lot of gun shops are doing them incorrectly and that the DOJ have been cracking down on dealers on these. The converted pistol needed to be re-marked and re-serialized for them to be legal. I've told him that I have a pistol that is a SSE and that it was never re-serialized. He said I should be OK but that...

2. I should be careful on using a SSE pistol as my primary home defense firearm. He said that since the DROS indicated that it is a single-shot, I may get into other legal issues should I ever use it against an intruder. A prosecutor may use that fact against me - converting a SSE into its original configuration from the manufacturer.

I've told him (respectfully) that I follow these threads on Calguns and I've never heard of any issues from #1 or #2. Can anyone confirm the information I was given? Or was the gun shop employee misinformed or full of it?

Thanks in advance.

# 1 seems to be in direct contradiction to this post from back in February 2012 on another thread. Unfortunately, the above lacks sufficient detail. E.G., what does "cracking down" mean? Warnings with specific cites to the Penal Code? Fines? Permit loss? Under what Penal Code section or other legal authority? Was the unnamed Temecula FFL subject to these directly, or was it relayed from another party? It's important to identify the source of the information. Any chance you can return and do some more recon?

Also, what "stamp" would be applied? Neither the ATF nor the DROS has a separate firearm type for "single shot pistol" or "roster exempt pistol" that I know of. Here's the list I have:

ATF (from form 4473):

• Handgun
• Long Gun
• Other Firearm

DROS (from electronic form):

• Combination Gun
• Derringer
• Frame
• Pistol
• Receiver
• Revolver
• Rifle
• Shotgun
• Destructive Device
• Flare Gun
• Machine Gun
• Silencer
• Tear Gas Launcher
• Any Other Weapon
• Unknown
• (Other)

Regarding # 2, is there a Penal Code section that supports this idea? I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. SSE doesn't seem to implicate the NFA. So under what (California) authority is the CA DOJ or any law enforcement agency "cracking down"? Yes, I know that cops are ill-informed of the law, and they often make allegations unsupported by law (which ultimately results in great expense to those defending against those allegations), but what crime would be alleged in that hypothetical?

Can an experienced FFL weigh in on this to shed some light?

[samz4mc]

Since we were at that shop for only a brief moment, I did not press for any more info. He did not cite any specific reports or rulings or penal codes on #1. I will make it a point to get more info from that particular employee the next time I am there. This FFL does not do SSE (and I don't think the other two FFLs in the area do either), but I should point out that it was another employee there that pointed me to a FFL in the San Diego that does SSE and that is where I eventually ended up purchasing a SSE pistol some months back.

On #2, again that particular employee did not cite any rulings or penal codes. I really don't know where his information came from.

I don't know for sure, but my take on that entire conversation was that he probably did not want us to take (our) potential business elsewhere. But just the fact that he mentioned those two items made me concerned enough to pose my questions here.

[LBDamned]

I suspect that until we see actual case law, one will never really know the full extent that a "Crack down" will be... or whether or not SSE is an issue...

I will say however, I have questioned (myself and my FFL) what challenges I might face if I us SSE in self defense... I have one (with another on the way) that are designed as self defense weapons... I hope I'm not put in a position to be the guinea pig.

[kemasa]

1. We should be careful about SSE pistols because a lot of gun shops are doing them incorrectly and that the DOJ have been cracking down on dealers on these. The converted pistol needed to be re-marked and re-serialized for them to be legal. I've told him that I have a pistol that is a SSE and that it was never re-serialized. He said I should be OK but that...

There was some question as to whether converting a firearm to single shot was considered manufacturing, which would require the name be marked on the firearm (the barrel would be ok) and the serial number (which a variance could be received from the BATF) marked for the new manufacturer.

This has since changed. If you have a complete functional firearm and just exchange parts with no milling or machining, then it is not considered to be manufacturing and that means that no marking is required. Now, not all BATF regions might feel that way.

In any case, it is FUD since the serial number is a Federal issue and the CA DOJ would not be involved, other than trying to get the BATF to do something.

2. I should be careful on using a SSE pistol as my primary home defense firearm. He said that since the DROS indicated that it is a single-shot, I may get into other legal issues should I ever use it against an intruder. A prosecutor may use that fact against me - converting a SSE into its original configuration from the manufacturer.

A prosecutor could try to do anything, but it is doubtful since the firearm would be in the same configuration as it was sent from the factory. It does not matter that during the transfer it was a single shot.

[dkirk]

Chiappa Rhino

Is it possible to somehow convert a Rhino revolver into a SSE?

[kemasa]

It might be difficult to convert it into a Single Shot, but if the size is large enough, you could convert it into a single action, which is exempt, again based on size. Based on the one link I found, I am not sure that it would be large enough.

[morrcarr67]

I saw a 2" Rhino for sale on Armslist. The person selling it said that they had it converted to DAO by a Chiapa certified GS.

If they can go DAO they might be able to go SAO.

[Saym14]

I saw a 2" Rhino for sale on Armslist. The person selling it said that they had it converted to DAO by a Chiapa certified GS.

If they can go DAO they might be able to go SAO.

SAO is not equal to SSE

[morrcarr67]

For revolvers you don't do SSE.

You do SAO. A SAO revolver with a min 3" barrel, 5 shot and OAL greater than 7 1/2" is roster exempt.

[ke6guj]

SAO is not equal to SSE

just as there is an exemption E for dimensionally-compliant Single-shot pistols, there is also an exemption for dimensionally-compliant single-action revolvers.

convert an SA/DA revolver to SAO and if the dimensions meet the regs, it would be roster exempt. perhaps it could be considered SAE (single-action exempt).

[Saym14]

just as there is an exemption E for dimensionally-compliant Single-shot pistols, there is also an exemption for dimensionally-compliant single-action revolvers.

convert an SA/DA revolver to SAO and if the dimensions meet the regs, it would be roster exempt. perhaps it could be considered SAE (single-action exempt).

oh yeah got it. does the rhino hhave a replaceable barrel ?

[hk-p2000]

For revolvers you don't do SSE.

You do SAO. A SAO revolver with a min 3" barrel, 5 shot and OAL greater than 7 1/2" is roster exempt.

need more info? how to do these.

[morrcarr67]

P2000- Check out the thread that says how to bring in off roster S&W's. It is a sticky in this section. While its focus is on Smiths you can apply the knowledge to any revolver.


EDIT:

Just to help you and others out here is the link

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=453716

[Damn True]

So, how up to date is the list of SSE providers at the head of this thread? Well, we know that Valkyrie is teats-up. Just wondering if anyone else in the Silicon Valley area or thereabouts might be able to handle a S&W M&P 45c?

(if they are available at all)

[morrcarr67]

So, how up to date is the list of SSE providers at the head of this thread? Well, we know that Valkyrie is teats-up. Just wondering if anyone else in the Silicon Valley area or thereabouts might be able to handle a S&W M&P 45c?

(if they are available at all)

From reading that thread that was started about Valkyrie it seems like a lot of the SSE guns were being shipped to Tracy Rifle and Pistol in Tracy and PRK in Fresno. I would check with those two first.