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  #1  
Old 09-18-2010, 4:32 PM
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Default Get a C&R In A Different State

I just wanted to let you everyone know that you can get a C&R FFL in a different state. If you live close enough to Oregon, Nevada or Arizona and you have an address; friend or family, that will let you ship guns to their house you can LEGALLY get around some of California's laws. I just got my new Nevada C&R in the mail today.
Why do this? I no longer need to ship to / and pay a Type 01 to receive my C&R hand guns. I no longer need to have a C.O.E to get my hand guns over the counter. I no longer have to worry about someone on Gunbroker.com not wanting to ship to California.
I will have my C&R handguns shipped to Nevada and every now and again drive over and pick them up and bring them home with me. I will still need to pay the $19 registration when I bring them home but that is not new.

Last edited by morrcarr67; 09-18-2010 at 6:29 PM..
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:36 PM
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sounds like a good idea. Waiting for someone smarter than I to chime in and assure me its all good legally?
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:37 PM
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Can I have two C&R FFLs at the same time? My parents live in Reno, and this would be ideal for me since I could send handguns there and rifles and shotguns here.

Second, I can read everything on your FFL. Your full name and address shows up through the scan where it is marked over, not sure if you care.
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:44 PM
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Just cause you can do something doesn't mean it is legal.. I'm waiting for a few more knowledgable folks to chim in on this.
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:45 PM
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Yep, I can read your details on the scan too. I would re-edit that if I were you, and repost the photo.
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:48 PM
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I do care about the address and stuff THANKS. I will re scan. I wanted to post this so that you would know I wasn't making S@&* up.
Before I applied for my second license in Nevada I called the local BATF agent in OC. After several weeks (4 or 5) he came back to me and told me that it was legal to have 2 C&R at different locations as well as being in different states. The BATF agent in Las Vegas called me to see what was up. I told him that I was buying from Gunbroker and that some people would not ship to California and that i did not want to pay a Type 01 to receive handguns that I should be able to buy with a C&R. After a couple of days he said OK and released it to be sent out.

Last edited by morrcarr67; 11-24-2010 at 6:03 AM..
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Old 09-18-2010, 4:52 PM
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Does anyone know how to change the picture?
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Old 09-18-2010, 6:01 PM
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Fixed:

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Old 09-18-2010, 6:04 PM
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Interesting..... I'm just going to ramble through a few ideas/concerns here, don't know how valid they are as I'm pretty exhausted today and not thinking too clearly.
You may have trouble purchasing C&R's from dealers in NV with that license. The "Premise Address" would indicate that the firearms are not for interstate transfer so you would also have to show proof of NV residency. Especially considering how gunshy we hear some of the NV gunshops are when dealing with Californians.

If you ever get hit up for an inspection you may be required to transport any firearms listed in your bound book back to either the Henderson address or the Las Vegas ATF office. Hmm. If you have a 2nd C&R license with a California "Premise Address" I guess you could sign it out of your Nevada bound book and into your California book. Might look pretty strange on an inspection, so be prepared for a phone call to the other field office and an inspection on the other license.
John

Last edited by jmlivingston; 09-18-2010 at 6:09 PM..
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2010, 6:30 PM
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Thanks for fixing the picture.
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2010, 6:41 PM
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John, I should let you know more.

I also have a C&R here in Ontario.

The Nevada C&R is only to have Handguns shipped from people on Gunbroker.com, S.O.G, Sarco, Century, etc. as they will and can only ship to the address listed on the license.

When I go and pick them up and bring them into California I will transfer them off the Nevada license to the California license. I will pay the $19.00 per C&R handgun registration.

When ever I travel outside of California I will take my California C&R license, buy and bring back home with me and of course send the great state of California their $19.00 per C&R handgun i bring back home.

As for the bound book. The Nevada agents told me to keep my Nevada book at home with me in California. As I mentioned I will be transferring ALL guns to my California license. When I renew my Nevada license I will put on my renewal application that ALL guns bought on the Nevada license were transferred to my California license and attach a copy of my California License. Sense I hold BOTH license's I am NOT conducting a business by buying on one and transferring to the other.
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Old 09-18-2010, 6:43 PM
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Good stuff! Sounds like that 2nd license is what really makes it work, and you'd already thought through the things I did.
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Old 09-18-2010, 6:47 PM
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Yup, with that 2nd license no more fees to dealers to do what I should be able to do myself. Besides, who doesn't like a nice trip out to Vegas? And, I get to bring home my new toys to boot.
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Old 09-18-2010, 7:13 PM
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Default Re: Get a C&R In A Different State

This is filled with win.
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Old 09-19-2010, 2:52 PM
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Isn't there a law coming into effect on ammo that will effect surplus ammo shipped to C&R's also, wouldn't this also help with that too or will it be illegal to transport ammo from out of state. Or maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, I'm pretty new to the California crazy gun laws
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Old 09-19-2010, 5:20 PM
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Here is what I just thought, it's a negative.

Let's a say a bureaucrat in California had an issue with that.
Let's say they try to pass a law that states you cannot have a C&R in two states, that to bring them into California, then you must have a single license in California.

Would such a crazy thing happen?

Trying to think out of the box, but then again, I don't know the finer points of C&R Regs.

Have a nice day.
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Old 09-19-2010, 5:26 PM
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Seems like the risks and hassles outweigh the possible benefits.

It would be easier to have a family member act as a middleman FFL (still potentially illegal).
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2010, 6:06 PM
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I figured this out a few years ago.

It makes California’s alleged C&R restrictions seem all the more ridiculous. I can ship an eligible firearm across the country, all the way to the border, but I still have to walk it across myself? I doubt it, but whatever.…

However, I still won’t deal with anti-California sellers.

Last edited by M. D. Van Norman; 09-19-2010 at 6:45 PM.. Reason: Formatting.
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2010, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by M. D. Van Norman View Post
I figured this out a few years ago.

It makes California's alleged C&R restrictions seem all the more ridiculous.
They aren't.

The only restriction is that handguns need to go through an 01.

The issue is sellers who won't deal with California 03's.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2010, 6:50 PM
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I’ve posted my opinion that the common interpretation on California’s alleged C&R restrictions is effectively FUD in several other threads. The out-of-state FFL simply proved to be the path of least resistance.
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  #21  
Old 09-19-2010, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHOD View Post

...
Let's a say a bureaucrat in California had an issue with that.
Let's say they try to pass a law that states you cannot have a C&R in two states, that to bring them into California, then you must have a single license in California.

Would such a crazy thing happen?
...
Probably not - the C&R is a Federal license.
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Old 09-19-2010, 9:21 PM
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This seems to easy too actually be legal. What an elegant solution!
I live twenty miles fro the Nevada border. I don't have family but I do have friends over there... I need to talk to my buddy about this.

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Originally Posted by nad24LA View Post
Isn't there a law coming into effect on ammo that will effect surplus ammo shipped to C&R's also, wouldn't this also help with that too or will it be illegal to transport ammo from out of state. Or maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, I'm pretty new to the California crazy gun laws
If you had an address out of state where you could receive ammo, the issue of the C&R is moot.
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Old 09-19-2010, 9:55 PM
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Maybe I should get one of those Vegas timeshares after all...
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Old 09-20-2010, 8:22 AM
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I think you'd be well served to get the verbal blessing of ATFE folks in writing, since that's how you'd be hanged if this went sideways.

An "O.k., sounds good" from a well-meaning ATFE agent is all well and good (not to mention an obvious sign of enlightened reason and analysis...), but I sure would not stake my future and that of my family on it. Just ask your self: Would you extend the same blind faith if it involved money?

Pat
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Old 09-20-2010, 8:22 AM
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Technically, a licensee may take delivery anywhere, though BATFE recommends licensing the premises where the firearms are regularly received or stored.
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Old 09-20-2010, 8:40 AM
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IrishPat, here you go.

FFL Newsletter, Mar. 2006, 8.

Open Letter to All Federally Licensed Collectors of Curio or Relic Firearms, Jan. 18, 2001.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:12 AM
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did you contact the atf and have them issue another license for the other address or did you request another application form and fill it out like the first one but with the nv address? please let us know the details because this would work for me.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks very much Matthew, I'll give those a read.
Pat
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Old 09-20-2010, 1:12 PM
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Where to start?

Don't have a friend or family member get the C&R. Transferring to you on a regular basis would be a business.

I did fill out a new application for the NV address. That's the only way to get a new license. The BATF field agent in Vegas called to explain that a 2nd license was not needed. That I could buy c&R's anywhere. I agreed but told him that I could only have them shipped to the address on the license. He agreed. I asked if there was any legal reason why I could not have 2 licenses and he said no and issued the NV license.

Last edited by morrcarr67; 09-20-2010 at 5:52 PM..
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:48 PM
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Of course, there is one major risk involved with having an FFL in a friendlier state and thus bypassing all the confusion surrounding California’s laws. You will be much more tempted to acquire C&R handguns.


A 1930s Colt Government Model that saw police duty in Argentina.


Webley Mk. VI converted to .45 ACP.


Upgraded Argentine m1927, Sistema Colt, dating to 1946.


C&R from the 1970s: a commemorative S&W Mod. 19.


An excellent East German Makarov.


An H&R Sportsman for .22-LR plinking fun.

The preceding were all dutifully registered with the California Department of Justice.
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Old 09-21-2010, 4:26 PM
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You know Matthew, I was afraid something like that might happen. Hopefully I'll be able to contain myself.

Nice collection. Really like both of the 1911's (1927) and the Mak. From the picture that is one of the nicest Mak's I've seen. Good job.
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Old 09-21-2010, 8:54 PM
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Upgraded Argentine m1927, Sistema Colt, dating to 1946.
That is just beautiful!
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Old 02-22-2011, 6:11 PM
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I've been wanting some C&R handguns, have family in WA state, and paying an FFL x-fer fee every time is wasting perfectly good money that could be spent on more guns and ammo. I'm sure someone else around here might enjoy reading this thread....
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:31 AM
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Sorry to revive this old thread, but does one need to be a resident at the out-of-state address? I own some rental property in Reno that I wouldn't mind having some C&R shipped to and pick up every once in a while...
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Old 04-18-2011, 3:09 AM
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Originally Posted by pingpong View Post
Sorry to revive this old thread, but does one need to be a resident at the out-of-state address? I own some rental property in Reno that I wouldn't mind having some C&R shipped to and pick up every once in a while...
A licensee is not required to be a resident of the State in which his licensed premises is located. He is only required to have "in a State...premises from which he conducts his collecting subject to license under this chapter..."

You may run into problems with the "picking up every once in a while" part though. You are required to log acquisitions in a timely manner.
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Old 04-18-2011, 7:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mssr. Eleganté View Post
A licensee is not required to be a resident of the State in which his licensed premises is located. He is only required to have "in a State...premises from which he conducts his collecting subject to license under this chapter..."

You may run into problems with the "picking up every once in a while" part though. You are required to log acquisitions in a timely manner.
All true.

That being said. When i got my NV lic the BATF agents I spoke with in Vegas asked me how long the firearms would be in NV and how long would it be before I picked them up? I told them that I get gun money about every 3 months and would do most of my buying at those times. I also told them that it would probably take me 2 to 3 weeks to come out and pick them up. They did not seem to have a problem with any of that.

Now they did say that I should keep my bound book at home with me in California. So, if you have the person/company you buy from send you a detailed invoice with serial number to your address in CA you could still log the info into your book; of course you do have to believe that the info matches.

Also, I hope you really trust the person/people in your Reno house with guns that you own and were shipped on your FFL.
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Old 04-18-2011, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mssr. Eleganté View Post
A licensee is not required to be a resident of the State in which his licensed premises is located. He is only required to have "in a State...premises from which he conducts his collecting subject to license under this chapter..."

You may run into problems with the "picking up every once in a while" part though. You are required to log acquisitions in a timely manner.
I had planned to get the resident at my "premisis" to unwrap it and give me the info so I could log it in right away. Like Morcarr, I keep my WA book with me in CA. I always appreciate your experianced comments on C&R regulatory law.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:29 AM
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Also, I hope you really trust the person/people in your Reno house with guns that you own and were shipped on your FFL.
Luckily it's an apartment complex so I can have the front office hold onto it for me . Or time it so I'm actually there physically to take delivery (might be asking too much of AIM or JG...)

This is all very good news. Trips to Reno can be expensed, and I can pick up some goodies to boot .
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Originally Posted by luchador768 View Post
We also had a lot of wannabe gangsters putting the display pistols down thier pants to "try them on.". If you bought a display handgun from the Riverside Turners in the 1990's there's a greater than average chance that there is cholo crotch on it.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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morrcarr67 morrcarr67 is offline
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Luckily it's an apartment complex so I can have the front office hold onto it for me . Or time it so I'm actually there physically to take delivery (might be asking too much of AIM or JG...)

This is all very good news. Trips to Reno can be expensed, and I can pick up some goodies to boot .
If you're ordering pistols to be delivered to your Reno address you should be able to time it out pretty good. Most of these guys ship via a 2 day service. Just make sure you order in the morning and ask is they can be sure to get it out today.

What I would do is order on Wednesday morning; 2 day shipping gets it there on Friday. Now make a 3 day working/expensed weekend out of your trip.
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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.


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Old 04-19-2011, 11:48 AM
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Sorry to revive this old thread, but does one need to be a resident at the out-of-state address? I own some rental property in Reno that I wouldn't mind having some C&R shipped to and pick up every once in a while...
I almost forgot. Don't feel bad for using the search button and finding a thread that has the info; or most of the info you are looking for. That's what this forum is for.

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For great pizza @ LA Farmer's Markets click on picture

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