2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[changl99]

I'm sure somebody has asked this so excuse me if I missed it.

I have a Serialized spikes tactical AR Pistol that was PPT to me 2 years ago. It says SBR on the lower with its serial number (not sure if this matters). Its currently registered as a pistol and always has been even before I owned it.

What features are legal or illegal?

Currently I have a Sig Brace, BB, flash hider, pistol grip. Haven't touched it since I bought it so, now I'd like to know what changes I need to make to keep it legal.

Again, I apologize in advance for any ignorance.

[Quiet]

I'm sure somebody has asked this so excuse me if I missed it.

I have a Serialized spikes tactical AR Pistol that was PPT to me 2 years ago. It says SBR on the lower with its serial number (not sure if this matters). Its currently registered as a pistol and always has been even before I owned it.

What features are legal or illegal?

Currently I have a Sig Brace, BB, flash hider, pistol grip. Haven't touched it since I bought it so, now I'd like to know what changes I need to make to keep it legal.

Again, I apologize in advance for any ignorance.

Because it has a "bullet button" style magazine lock, starting 01-01-2017, it is considered an assault weapon.

Since you legally acquired it before 2017, you are currently granted an exemption to possess it until 07-01-2018. This exemption is for possession only and does not grant you an exemption to advertise it for sale or transfer it while in CA.

Since the exemption for possession expires on 07-01-2018, you will need to do one of the following by 06-30-2018:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Modify it so that it is a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 or less round magazine. In order to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine needs to be contained in the firearm and can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or the magazine needs to be permanently attached in the firearm's magazine well.
C. Modify it so that it is a manually operated pistol. This can be done by removing the gas tube/piston and plugging the gas block.
D. Disassembled parts. Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assemble them while in CA.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Lurker here finally decided to chime in.

I try very hard not to ask questions already asked but I must admit this entire topic is confusing and nonsensical. Should mention I moved here a few years ago for work from up north where the suppressors and sbr's frolic freely.

I have yet to see mention of builds using a single shot lower or single shot 80%. I'm talking about the lowers you would see on Ferret 50's and the older Serbu 50's.

No provision at all for a magazine. Found these https://www.hellfirearmory.com/index...product_id=118 and figured this would be the ticket.

Read a few times in various threads that you need to build the upper because factory uppers are test fired. Is this a CA thing? What I mean is what difference would it make if the upper was fired in any configuration, the upper is not the firearm in the eyes of the ATF. That's the same as saying if you bought a FA BCG that was ever in a Class 3 gun that BCG magically makes your rifle a machine gun (an illegal one). Could somebody expand on this for me?

If I'm tracking correctly I could finish the above 80% single shot lower drop an LMT 12.5" piston upper on it with the piston plugged, muzzle device pin/welded and be completely GTG.

With that specific configuration in mind would that pass the acceptable criteria?

Thanks in advance for the info.

A06

[Quiet]

Read a few times in various threads that you need to build the upper because factory uppers are test fired. Is this a CA thing? What I mean is what difference would it make if the upper was fired in any configuration, the upper is not the firearm in the eyes of the ATF. That's the same as saying if you bought a FA BCG that was ever in a Class 3 gun that BCG magically makes your rifle a machine gun (an illegal one). Could somebody expand on this for me?

CA thing.
CA laws requires the handgun can never have been semi-auto prior to being made into a single-shot.
Semi-auto operation parts (gas tube/piston, etc) installed on it, is proof that the firearm was semi-auto.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Don't take this as trying to start a debate I simply want to understand this completely.

"Ca Law requires the handgun can never been made a semi auto"

--If building on an 80% in this configuration its impossible to have ever been a semi as far as the lower is concerned which is the actual firearm. BTW planning to have engraved as well.



"Semi-auto operation parts (gas tube/piston, etc) installed on it, is proof that the firearm was semi-auto."

--Again the "Firearm" as we are are recognizing to be the lower could have never been a semi auto regardless of components. Even if you had DIAS it still would not allow that lower configuration to be anything more than a single shot.

I have given an earnest attempt to try to find the applicable phrasing in the CA laws that suggest the upper to be a firearm but have yet to see anything of the sort.

I understand your points as they would apply to an 80% with a broached magazine well or even as they apply to building on a stripped lower when that was still permitted.

I dont see how it would apply to the above lower provided the buffer was plugged and the piston removed or plug was welded closed.

Sincerely appreciate the info.

[Quiet]

--Again the "Firearm" as we are are recognizing to be the lower could have never been a semi auto regardless of components. Even if you had DIAS it still would not allow that lower configuration to be anything more than a single shot.

DIAS by itself (unattached/not installed) is considered a "machine gun". [PC 16880(b)]


Penal Code 16880
(b) The term “machinegun” also includes the frame or receiver of any weapon described in subdivision (a), any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

[Anchor Zero Six]

LOL yes I'm well aware of that was simply illustrating a point.

[Quiet]

I have given an earnest attempt to try to find the applicable phrasing in the CA laws that suggest the upper to be a firearm but have yet to see anything of the sort.

I understand your points as they would apply to an 80% with a broached magazine well or even as they apply to building on a stripped lower when that was still permitted.

I dont see how it would apply to the above lower provided the buffer was plugged and the piston removed or plug was welded closed.

CA DOJ BOF would only list single-shot AR pistol onto the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale when it did not have a gas tube installed, no gas block installed, and had a solid magazine well.

First attempts to list it included a functional gas system (gas block + gas tube) upper on a standard lower and it was rejected due to CA DOJ BOF still considering it semi-auto, even though it was a single-shot.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Was this the Franklin Armory attempt?

Thank you that makes sense.

LMT sells all the components I would need individually so that's the route I will go even if it will cost a little more than buying a complete (and test fired) upper. Better safe than sorry.

[axioma]

You can only be a CA unlicensed manufacturer if you are a federally licensed manufacturer.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code who manufactures fewer than 100 firearms in a calendar year within this state.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=1.&article=

wouldn't this free up all of us who made their own firearms?

[Cokebottle]

wouldn't this free up all of us who made their own firearms?

Nope.

We are "unlicensed subjects"

[axioma]

Nope.

We are "unlicensed subjects"

OK. so, the CA handgun laws specifically sites 'unlicensed subjects'?

[Cokebottle]

OK. so, the CA handgun laws specifically sites 'unlicensed subjects'?

Yep.

And if you VolReg, it will be registered to manufacturer "US"

[axioma]

Yep.

And if you VolReg, it will be registered to manufacturer "US"

where can I find the section of the law that defines "unlicensed subjects", and where can I find when that definition went in to effect, regarding self built firearms not intended for sale. I keep finding a lot of partial info, but it still seems like at any point prior to 2017, a person could legally build their own ar pistol as a semi auto with a BB (skipping the whole SSE route), because the person isn't a "manufacture" at that point, as it seems like prior to 2017 'manufacture' didn't apply to firearms not intended for sale. it seems like the handgun laws are solely and expressly in context of handguns FOR SALE.

[Cokebottle]

where can I find the section of the law that defines "unlicensed subjects", and where can I find when that definition went in to effect, regarding self built firearms not intended for sale. I keep finding a lot of partial info, but it still seems like at any point prior to 2017, a person could legally build their own ar pistol as a semi auto with a BB (skipping the whole SSE route), because the person isn't a "manufacture" at that point, as it seems like prior to 2017 'manufacture' didn't apply to firearms not intended for sale. it seems like the handgun laws are solely and expressly in context of handguns FOR SALE.

Prop 63... it's all in there.
Kevin DeLeon's "Ghost Gun" ban.

Effective Jan 1 2019, it will be illegal to possess a firearm that does not have a serial number (C&R exempt).
Effective July 1 2018, the DOJ must be asked for a serial number for any home-build.
Effective January 2017, any assault weapon registration application for an 80% build must have a DOJ-issued serial number.