2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[Cokebottle]

Hence the requirement that, in order to meet SSE2, the pistol can never have had a gas tube/piston installed and a gas block had to be plugged or never installed.

Ahh, that's right. SSE2 Turners had stopped selling their AR pistols.

[webjagger]

Can i legally sell my Daniel defense MK?? What mods (ARMAglock) , or AS IS?
This was bought prior to 2016 as SSE with DDMK pistol config. with BB and sig brace.
thanks

[Cokebottle]

Can i legally sell my Daniel defense MK?? What mods (ARMAglock) , or AS IS?
This was bought prior to 2016 as SSE with DDMK pistol config. with BB and sig brace.
thanks

Patriot Button, FCHook, Franklin DFM, Hogue Freedom Fighter

I have a number of serious concerns about the ARMaglock, including the owner of the company posting a Youtube video showing how to clear a malfunction by using a tool to render the rifle into an illegal configuration, while he plays with words claiming that it is a repair.

He's also filed SLAP lawsuits against nearly everyone else who has come up with a way to legally drop a magazine on a 2017-compliant AR.
I don't give my business to litigious a-holes.

[Whiterabbit]

AFAIK...
CA DOJ BOF also claimed the presence of a gas block/tube was proof the firearm was semi-auto.
.

I'm not challenging you, but do you have any written evidence to support this claim in an out-of-context way? (ie that this claim applies in all situations of firearm)

Or was it just a verbal from one guy on the phone, or does it only narrowly apply, like pistols at the time of transfer, etc?

[Quiet]

I'm not challenging you, but do you have any written evidence to support this claim in an out-of-context way? (ie that this claim applies in all situations of firearm)

Or was it just a verbal from one guy on the phone, or does it only narrowly apply, like pistols at the time of transfer, etc?

AFAIK...
It's one of the reasons they gave Franklin Armory when they rejected Franklin Armory's first attempt to get a SSE2 pistol listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

Franklin Armory started with a standard AR lower reciever, a standard complete direcet-impingment AR upper, a magzine lock, and a zero round mag/sled. This got rejected by CA DOJ BOF for being a single-shot made from a semi-auto.
Franklin Armory ended with a AR lower receiver with a solid magazine well and a complete AR upper with a barrel that was not tapped for a gas system & no gas block/tube installed. This got accepted by CA DOJ BOF for being an exempt single-shot pistol.

IMO...
The Franklin Armory SSE2 AR pistols that are listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale set the bar for what CA DOJ BOF will accept as a SSE2 pistol.

[franklinarmory]

The first drop tested pistol should have been approved. We thought about suing for relief but we had too much vested in R&D to spare cash for the suit at the time. We submitted the second lab approved pistols as a stalking horse for things to come, however, there is absolutely no reason why the initial lab approved design should not be on the roster.

[Mikemass]

The single-shot pistol exemption was amended and that change went into effect on 01-01-2015.

The original single-shot pistol exemption was given the abbreviation of "SSE" and was allowed from 01-01-2001 to 12-31-2014.

SSE only required the pistol to have a minimum 6" barrel length and a minimum 10.5" overall length and operated via single-shot.

The current single-shot pistol exemption was given the abbreviation of "SSE2" and has been allowed since 01-01-2015.

SSE2 requires the pistol to have a minimum 6" barrel length and a minimum 10.5" overall length and operate via bolt-action or break-top and can never have been semi-auto. [PC 32100(b)]

Because SSE2 can not apply to a "semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode", pistols made to comply with SSE2 can not be made from an existing semi-auto pistol or have a functional semi-auto operating system.

AFAIK...
There were no laws/regulations that prohibited a SSE pistol to be made into a semi-auto pistol.
Because of the non semi-auto part of SSE2, some argue that it may be illegal to convert a SSE2 pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
Because of part of the "home built (80%)" firearm laws going into effect, starting 01-01-2017, it may now be illegal to change a SSE2 into a semi-auto pistol due to new definitions that affect "building" firearms going into effect.

I thought I was a relatively intelligent individual, but CA 2017 AR pistol laws are making me question that. :smh:

If I were to purchase via PPT a NIB AR pistol (sold originally as a pistol), it's my understanding that it must be converted to a single shot pistol (removing the gas system) before the transfer. Can I legally reinstall the gas system and return it to a semi auto pistol? ...and if so do I have to also make it fixed magazine?

Any other info or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Cokebottle]

I thought I was a relatively intelligent individual, but CA 2017 AR pistol laws are making me question that. :smh:

If I were to purchase via PPT a NIB AR pistol (sold originally as a pistol), it's my understanding that it must be converted to a single shot pistol (removing the gas system) before the transfer. Can I legally reinstall the gas system and return it to a semi auto pistol? ...and if so do I have to also make it fixed magazine?

Any other info or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

PPT is roster-exempt, so a semi automatic that is compliant with AW laws (fixed magazine) may be transferred PPT without modification.

FFL transfers must be in a roster-exempt form.


And don't let CA gun laws question your intelligence... let the fact that we continue to live in California raise that question for us all

[Bobby Ricigliano]

So, I have a question regarding the legality of an AR pistol build.
A stripped pistol lower was purchased via PPT in 2016 (DROS paper shows the type as "handgun"), then the build was completed (all before 2017) with a standard LPK + BB, a complete pistol buffer kit, and a complete pistol upper. Does this build process have any problem legally?

If there's any problem with the process or build described above, please do point it out, and then let's acknowledge that this is a discussion of a hypothetical situation and mental exercise. Thanks.

I will guess that this is the most likely scenario most California AR pistol owners are wrestling with now as far as proceeding legally:

Purchased a built or stripped pistol lower or complete BB pistol prior to 2017.

Trying to figure out now what to do with it to keep it legal.

It will be insightful to find out from any owners of such items who have already registered them as AW's how the process went.

For those people that bought into the featureless rifles concept for all their long guns , these AR pistols are really the only thorn left in the side of people that own them and want to keep them.

[Mikemass]

PPT is roster-exempt, so a semi automatic that is compliant with AW laws (fixed magazine) may be transferred PPT without modification.

FFL transfers must be in a roster-exempt form.


And don't let CA gun laws question your intelligence... let the fact that we continue to live in California raise that question for us all

The pistol was originally sold with a BB. So can I purchase it as a lower and do a fixed mag conversion when I take possession. Then I need to register it as an AW?

And yes everyday I consider moving out of CA but my minor kids still live here with my ex so a few more years and I'll be willing to give up my nightly sunset views of the Pacific.

[Cokebottle]

The pistol was originally sold with a BB. So can I purchase it as a lower and do a fixed mag conversion when I take possession. Then I need to register it as an AW?

And yes everyday I consider moving out of CA but my minor kids still live here with my ex so a few more years and I'll be willing to give up my nightly sunset views of the Pacific.

Must have been purchased in 2016 or before to be eligible for registration.

If you purchase it now, it must be AW-compliant, meaning either a stripped lower, or a compliant fixed magazine.


The problem with the stripped lower is that it is not a complete pistol, and it is illegal to manufacture a non-compliant pistol.
This was more clear last year, but the new law has redefined "manufacture" to include assembling parts.

So it may or may not be, and most likely is not, legal to build a semiautomatic pistol from a stripped lower.

[Mikemass]

Must have been purchased in 2016 or before to be eligible for registration.

If you purchase it now, it must be AW-compliant, meaning either a stripped lower, or a compliant fixed magazine.


The problem with the stripped lower is that it is not a complete pistol, and it is illegal to manufacture a non-compliant pistol.
This was more clear last year, but the new law has redefined "manufacture" to include assembling parts.

So it may or may not be, and most likely is not, legal to build a semiautomatic pistol from a stripped lower.

Can the seller make it fixed mag prior to transfer or is that considered manufacture of a non-compliant pistol too?

[Cokebottle]

Can the seller make it fixed mag prior to transfer or is that considered manufacture of a non-compliant pistol too?

Seller can make it a compliant fixed magazine.

[Mikemass]

Seller can make it a compliant fixed magazine.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. Then it can be transferred to me as an AW?

Just trying not to become a felon :smh:

[Cokebottle]

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. Then it can be transferred to me as an AW?

Just trying not to become a felon :smh:

No.

Compliant means it is not an AW.
If it has a bullet button, it has to be transferred in 2016 or earlier.