2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[MolonLabe1]

PC 29180 is identifying the grace period in which you have to obtain a serial number from the CDOJ and have it engraved per ATF guidelines for those lowers that do not have a serial number engraved upon them prior to 7-1-18.

Every company in California that is selling 80% lowers and are FFLs (and there are a boat load of them) interpret the law in this manner and will not allow personalized serial number engraving after 7-1-19. No way would these companies lawyers allow them to sell lowers prior to 7-1-18 with personal serial numbers on them to only have to somehow obliterate that number and then engrave DOJ number later. Not gonna happen.


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[ajb78]

PC 29180 is identifying the grace period in which you have to obtain a serial number from the CDOJ and have it engraved per ATF guidelines for those lowers that do not have a serial number engraved upon them prior to 7-1-18.

Every company in California that is selling 80% lowers and are FFLs (and there are a boat load of them) interpret the law in this manner and will not allow personalized serial number engraving after 7-1-19. No way would these companies lawyers allow them to sell lowers prior to 7-1-18 with personal serial numbers on them to only have to somehow obliterate that number and then engrave DOJ number later. Not gonna happen.


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While that sounds good, I do not see anything in the PC that supports that theory. This theory may actually have ground to stand on, if it was based on more than just a Q&A topic. I don't see how you can rely on a Q&A topic and answer, that could change or disappear at any time. For example if there was a US Code or CFR, that specifically stated personally manufactured firearms were to be marked in accordance with the same CFR that applied to licensed manufacturers. As it is now, CFR PART 478, applies to COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/receiver-blanks

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=d81236b8e3a4138ecb971a41fa7769bb&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&idno=27#se27.3.478_11

Why would they not allow them to sell personally serialized, engraved lowers/frames? Provided you, as the manufacturer in CA, comply with the law as written, there would be no reason to have to "obliterate that number" and engrave the one issued by CA DOJ.

Additionally, these companies do not only sell to CA customers, there are 49 other states with folks manufacturing their own firearms, and surely some of them would want to have their property marked in case of loss or theft.

The only grace period, is for firearms manufactured prior to July 1, 2018, which do not have a serial number assigned to them, must apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number by January, 1 2019.

(c) By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, shall do all of the following:

PC 29180 (b) only identifies the date, after which, you must apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number prior to building a firearm.

(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:

But, again, the only exception in PC 29181, that would cause you to not be affected by PC 29180 appears to be:

(c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.

[MolonLabe1]

While that sounds good, I do not see anything in the PC that supports that theory. This theory may actually have ground to stand on, if it was based on more than just a Q&A topic. I don't see how you can rely on a Q&A topic and answer, that could change or disappear at any time. For example if there was a US Code or CFR, that specifically stated personally manufactured firearms were to be marked in accordance with the same CFR that applied to licensed manufacturers. As it is now, CFR PART 478, applies to COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/receiver-blanks

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=d81236b8e3a4138ecb971a41fa7769bb&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&idno=27#se27.3.478_11

Why would they not allow them to sell personally serialized, engraved lowers/frames? Provided you, as the manufacturer in CA, comply with the law as written, there would be no reason to have to "obliterate that number" and engrave the one issued by CA DOJ.



Additionally, these companies do not only sell to CA customers, there are 49 other states with folks manufacturing their own firearms, and surely some of them would want to have their property marked in case of loss or theft.



The only grace period, is for firearms manufactured prior to July 1, 2018, which do not have a serial number assigned to them, must apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number by January, 1 2019.





PC 29180 (b) only identifies the date, after which, you must apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number prior to building a firearm.





But, again, the only exception in PC 29181, that would cause you to not be affected by PC 29180 appears to be:

[ajb78]

Until someone can make a link between one of the other exclusions in PC 29181, the only way to avoid having a CA DOJ issued serial number, is to complete BOF 4542A Firearms Ownership Report or the online CFAR/CRIS Firearm Ownership Report, prior to 07/01/2018, with your own serial number and you will be excepted from the requirements of PC 29180, by exception (c) in PC 29181, of being "entered into the centralized registry".

If the firearm was manufactured prior to 07/01/2018, but you did not take steps to be excepted from PC 29180, by one of the exceptions in PC 29181, then you have until 01/01/2019 to apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number. After that:

(f) If the firearm is a handgun, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. For all other firearms, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. Each firearm found to be in violation of this section constitutes a distinct and separate offense. This section does not preclude prosecution under any other law providing for a greater penalty.

I'd also bet that part of your punishment, will be a prohibition on firearm ownership for 10 years as part of your probation.

Yes they will make you engrave another serial number on it, they are already doing that with the AB1135/SB880 AW's that were self manufactured and self serialized. The registration form for AB1135/SB880 AW's has a place for "OTHER NUMBER" on it, below the serial number entry.

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I wish all LEO had your mindset, but I highly doubt that will be the case for every instance where contact is made. Remember the goal for the CA legislature is removal of guns from civilian hands. To that note, whether it is win-able or not does not really matter; they could just choose to confiscate the firearm, and not file charges, thus placing the burden on the person who's property was stolen, if they want get their property back.

[zeroman03]

Until someone can make a link between one of the other exclusions in PC 29181, the only way to avoid having a CA DOJ issued serial number, is to complete BOF 4542A Firearms Ownership Report or the online CFAR/CRIS Firearm Ownership Report, prior to 07/01/2018, with your own serial number and you will be excepted from the requirements of PC 29180, by exception (c) in PC 29181, of being "entered into the centralized registry".

If the firearm was manufactured prior to 07/01/2018, but you did not take steps to be excepted from PC 29180, by one of the exceptions in PC 29181, then you have until 01/01/2019 to apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number. After that:


I'd also bet that part of your punishment, will be a prohibition on firearm ownership for 10 years as part of your probation.

Yes they will make you engrave another serial number on it, they are already doing that with the AB1135/SB880 AW's that were self manufactured and self serialized. The registration form for AB1135/SB880 AW's has a place for "OTHER NUMBER" on it, below the serial number entry.

[ATTACH]683459[/ATTACH]



I wish all LEO had your mindset, but I highly doubt that will be the case for every instance where contact is made. Remember the goal for the CA legislature is removal of guns from civilian hands. To that note, whether it is win-able or not does not really matter; they could just choose to confiscate the firearm, and not file charges, thus placing the burden on the person who's property was stolen, if they want get their property back.

If every peace officer in CA had MolonLabe1's Constitutional mind set, there would still be hope for this state. My hats off to you sir.

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[Nor*Cal]

Just a reminder that this is an "AR Pistol thread". Some of the above discussion is a better fit for the "80% Lowers" pinned thread in the "How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me" section.

[SteveHamn]

I found this step-by-step process of how to legally build an AR pistol out of an 80% Lower in 2018. https://www.80-lower.com/blogs/80-lo...r-pistol-in-ca . Thoughts? Do you guys generally agree with this? Most people I talk to in person generally agree with this process, but going on the internet there is a lot of misinformation.

[smb123]

I found this step-by-step process of how to legally build an AR pistol out of an 80% Lower in 2018. https://www.80-lower.com/blogs/80-lo...r-pistol-in-ca . Thoughts? Do you guys generally agree with this? Most people I talk to in person generally agree with this process, but going on the internet there is a lot of misinformation.

I would air on the side of caution and say that you would be legal all the way up to the section regarding it being legal to convert it to semi auto due to changes made regarding the definition of "manufacturing". I would personally look for posts made by Quite and Cokebottle regarding this subject.

Read this thread:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1311906

[SteveHamn]

I would air on the side of caution and say that you would be legal all the way up to the section regarding it being legal to convert it to semi auto due to changes made regarding the definition of "manufacturing". I would personally look for posts made by Quite and Cokebottle regarding this subject.

Read this thread:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1311906

Yeah I agree, that is where things start to get gray. If it was kept "bolt action" by plugging the gas block (is that the same as "single shot"?), could the 0 round sled be changed out for a fixed 10 round mag?

If not, how do you fire it with a 0 round sled? Do you have to pull the bolt back and drop a round into the chamber with your hands? Yikes! Is there another way?

[jlist]

I would air on the side of caution and say that you would be legal all the way up to the section regarding it being legal to convert it to semi auto due to changes made regarding the definition of "manufacturing". I would personally look for posts made by Quite and Cokebottle regarding this subject.

Some members here have successfully volreg-ged 80% AR pistol builds as semi-auto. If it's an AR pistol built after 2014 and volreg gets approved, does it mean that it's considered legal? Or it only says you have a good S/N but doesn't say anything about the legality of the pistol?

[Cokebottle]

Some members here have successfully volreg-ged 80% AR pistol builds as semi-auto. If it's an AR pistol built after 2014 and volreg gets approved, does it mean that it's considered legal? Or it only says you have a good S/N but doesn't say anything about the legality of the pistol?

The expanded definition of "manufacture" took effect Jan 1 2017, so SSEv1.0 and SSEv2.0 builds converted to Semi-auto prior to that date have no question as to their legality.

Those who have posted about successfully received VolReg approval have all indicated that the builds were completed and converted prior to 2017.

[Mandingo27]

Can you just transfer an ar pistol lower that was previously dros'd as a pistol and that's marked as a pistol? And will it be a legal ar pistol if an armaglock is installed? Asking for a friend

[rallo87]

Are these members doing it online? Or mailing in the physical copy with a check for 19.00?


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[rallo87]

Anyone?


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[LeadFarmer74]

Anyone?


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What are you talking about?