Los Angeles

[FilmGuy]

I lived on L.A. County for most of my life. I also owned a home and had a job, friends and family there, however, I wanted a CCW and I could not leave California so I sold my home and moved to Orange County and now I have a CCW. I call BS on it not being feasible to move. Either move to a location where you can get a CCW or forever let it go. Talking about it will make no difference. You will not get a CCW in L.A. County. PERIOD!

Despite what you may think you know, not everyone can move to OC or other friendly CCW jurisdictions. Instead of discouraging people to at least try to chip away at the CCW system in LA County, you could encourage them to at least put up a fight. (Even if the odds seem totally against them)

Wouldn't you rather eventually be proven wrong and see people who took the time and a few bucks top fight have a victory in LA County? Or is it more important to be the guy who constantly tells everyone something is impossible?

[S.A.]

Is there a Big Karen in this thread?

[cannon]

It's not so simple to just up and move when you own your house and have friends and family who live in the area. The CCW is a priority, but there are other priorities that rank higher. We are planning to move. However, it will more likely be out of state. The election results will really be the deciding factor as to whether there is hope or it is too far gone.

I understand why you feel that way. Possibly kids in school, church etc.

But we decided to move and went to kern County. CCWs for every non felon/pscho here.

BTW. If the Antelope Valley (Lancaster/Palmdale) is not too far. Kern County ends in the Antelope Valley at Ave. A. Train or car commute to L.A. with a CCW.

[Big Jake]

I understand why you feel that way. Possibly kids in school, church etc.

But we decided to move and went to kern County. CCWs for every non felon/pscho here.

BTW. If the Antelope Valley (Lancaster/Palmdale) is not too far. Kern County ends in the Antelope Valley at Ave. A. Train or car commute to L.A. with a CCW.

Think Rosamond!

[Big Jake]

Despite what you may think you know, not everyone can move to OC or other friendly CCW jurisdictions. Instead of discouraging people to at least try to chip away at the CCW system in LA County, you could encourage them to at least put up a fight. (Even if the odds seem totally against them)

Wouldn't you rather eventually be proven wrong and see people who took the time and a few bucks top fight have a victory in LA County? Or is it more important to be the guy who constantly tells everyone something is impossible?

Like I have stated before...

I live in the real world not on Fantasy Island. I told Paladin that I will eat that crow when it happens. I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong on this but reality is an intrusive SOB so if you live in L.A County and want a CCW you have three choices.

1. Move to ANY bordering county and as long as you meet the minimum
criteria you will get a CCW.
2. Move to a shall issue state.
3. Continue to waste your time posting messages on a gun forum and twenty
years from now you will still be wishing for something that simply will not
happen. Post on!

[CCWFacts]

Friends,

• Don't give up
• Don't apply if you don't have a very good GC statement. "I transport valuable items" or "I go to remote locations for work" will do fine in most counties in California but not in LA
• Understand that there seems to be some inconsistencies in how these apps are handled and that there may be some changes going on there
• If you have great good cause you could still be rejected
• Or you might get it

As for the "just move" crowd, many / most people have many other issues in life, like real estate, jobs, family, friends and 100 other things, that keep them from moving. If you're single and work from home and you care about CCW more than where you live, then go ahead and move. For the rest of us, it's not that easy.

And remember point #1, don't give up. If you have strong good cause, apply, and if rejected, appeal, and apply again 12+ months later if there's any indication things may have changed.

It's great to be realistic, it's not great to be negative.

A whole bunch of apps are in process now and we will get more data points with every app that's submitted.

[kflakes]

Update on my CCW application.

I received a call from the Los Angeles Sheriff Deputy today and had a very quick interview. It probably lasted last between 5-10 minutes. The Deputy asked why I needed a CCW. I explained that I transport valuables and large amounts of money when I meet my clients, and I have a well documented incident where a disgruntled ex-client made threats to the point of following me home from work and caused my family to move (although no police report or restraining order was filed). My application papers were thick because I submitted all the supporting evidence. I wanted my application file to be as complete as possible so no additional information was needed, and it appears that it was. She asked how long ago the incident happened and if there have been any other incidents since then. She also emphasized that we have the right to own firearms and defend ourselves at home, to which I politely countered that it does not address my and my family's safety when we are away from home. She ended the interview by summarizing it with a conclusory statement, "So there have been no imminent threats since then and your reason for wanting a CCW is general fear, correct?"

Putting words in my mouth is a good indication that the application will likely be rejected. I would be surprised if my application is allowed.

Timeline:
- From the time the application was received until the check for application fee was cashed was around 2 weeks.
- From the time the check was cashed until the phone interview was another 2 weeks.

So it appears that the process takes about one month from the time the application is received until the phone interview.

Although my application will likely be rejected, at least I can help answer CGNers who want to give it a try on how to correctly fill out the form, how to make your application as complete as possible and what kind of evidence you should include. It appears that my application file was good and not an issue. The rejection will be based on the lack of good cause. Side (bitterness) note: maybe if someone in the family gets seriously hurt, knock on wood, just maybe, good cause will be established.

I also still see this as progress. The first time I applied under Sheriff McDonnell, it was an outright rejection letter. This time around, at least I got to a phone interview. So while CCW is still extremely difficult to get and most of us won't get it, things may very slowly turn for the better. It's not a waste of time for me; my expectation was low anyway. We as a group are still learning something from this. If there are more rejections than approvals, then we can update the color in LA County map. We wouldn't know unless we try, right? So take my experience for what it's worth.

Advice to uproot my family and move from L.A. County by Big Jake in 5, 4, 3...

[Paladin]

Update on my CCW application.

I received a call from the Los Angeles Sheriff Deputy today and had a very quick interview. It probably lasted last between 5-10 minutes. The Deputy asked why I needed a CCW. I explained that(although no police report or restraining order was filed). My application papers were thick because I submitted all the supporting evidence. I wanted my application file to be as complete as possible so no additional information was needed, and it appears that it was. She asked how long ago the incident happened and if there have been any other incidents since then. She also emphasized that we have the right to own firearms and defend ourselves at home, to which I politely countered that it does not address my and my family's safety when we are away from home. She ended the interview by summarizing it with a conclusory statement, "So there have been no imminent threats since then and your reason for wanting a CCW is general fear, correct?"

What you should have said is “No, for my (business/employment) ‘I transport valuables and large amounts of money when I meet my clients’ that puts me at substantial more risk than the general public as seen by the ‘well documented incident where a disgruntled ex-client made threats to the point of following me home from work and caused my family to move.’”

She describes at the end a Dark Red GC standard when AV previously described a Yellow one, at least for Antelope Valley residents.

Do you plan on appealing?

I’ve told you guys to keep watching AV’s video town halls for more info re his CCW policy and practices. Post a summary, a link and roughly the time he talks about CCWs. I won’t do that for you! I’m not in SoCal, much less LA Co.

[kflakes]

[Paladin]

She ended the interview by summarizing it with a conclusory statement, "So there have been no imminent threats since then and your reason for wanting a CCW is general fear, correct?"

Putting words in my mouth is a good indication that the application will likely be rejected.

She’s presenting you a false dichotomy: if you don’t have an “imminent threat” GC (Dark Red), you only have a “general fear” (Dark Green). Too bad you didn’t get her to state that in writing. I’d bet if you PRA all the issued CCW GC statements you’d find people who have been issued without imminent threats (with proof). Then you use Guillory v. Gates/OC for a federal 14th Amendment Equal Protection civil rights lawsuit ($$$).

[Paladin]

[Paladin]

Another thought: kflakes’ problem may not have been their GC statement per se but rather that the incident was not even reported to the police. Is that the behavior of someone in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury?

Remember without proof that meets their satisfaction they just blow off that GC.

[kflakes]

Yeah, unfortunately. But everything is hindsight 20/20 at this point. I can only submit the facts, which included the "unfavorable fact" that I did not file a police report. I cannot change that. However, that still did not take away another fact that I transport valuable items and large amounts of money when I meet my clients.

Your observation of the deputy's false dichotomy is correct. It sounded like it's either "imminent threat" or "general fear." Nothing in between. But as I understand it, there have been some CGNers that you said have been approved recently. I suppose there is no uniform internal standard in these examinations of applications. It all depends on the deputy reviewing the application, which is highly subjective and varies from one deputy to another.

I am curious to find out how appeals are processed, if the initial application process appears to be dependent on the subjective view of the examining deputy.

[kflakes]

By the way, I used to watch Sheriff Villanueva's weekly live streaming on Facebook, and I posted maybe 1 or 2 of those weekly streamings here. The questions on CCW were always asked, and he always gave the same answer. So I did not post anything new since then, since he only repeats the same answer and there is no new information. I am not aware of any in-person town hall meetings in the last few months due to the stay at home order.

[Paladin]

kflakes, you’re not denied until LASD says you’re denied.

A CGNer had a similar experience and asked me to let you know they passed both GC and interview.