"Real ID" Update

[taperxz]

Show me the PC that says it must be RealID? The PC I find says state issued drivers license or identification card. Nothing about RealID compliant.

DOJ bulletin is not PC

Stop while you're ahead. Please. The PC says what it says but the new Drivers license does not follow the letter of the law as the old one did with the verbage on it. Laws change, CA DOJ tells us not to accept it, we won't and you can if you want (if you're an FFL) Most of us don't want to be shut down or have to pay a lawyer to get us out of jail.

[broadside]

Stop while you're ahead. Please. The PC says what it says but the new Drivers license does not follow the letter of the law as the old one did with the verbage on it. Laws change, CA DOJ tells us not to accept it, we won't and you can if you want (if you're an FFL) Most of us don't want to be shut down or have to pay a lawyer to get us out of jail.

We all ***** and complain and try get things corrected when other DOJ regs go against what PC says, so why not the same pushback on this?

[9mmContagion]

I don't think you quite understand whats going on with the process. Undetermined appears to be a situation where a question mark that must be resolved but hasn't and more time is need to assess the situation. If the firearm is delivered, they know where to go to get it anyway. The dems actually passed this law to mandate a release after 30 days so people wouldn't get caught up in the system for months like they did before.

Fed limits apply is exactly what ACE wrote up. Its also a way to make it harder for a someone to actually buy a firearm.

DOJ isn't advising anything on not taking a Fed Limits Apply. LOL They are forbidding it.

Green cards are need for any non citizen or a valid visa AND a hunting license or exemption from the Sec of State of the United States. (whatever that is)

[taperxz]

We all ***** and complain and try get things corrected when other DOJ regs go against what PC says, so why not the same pushback on this?

You're not pushing back. You are complaining to FFL's about this policy here on CGN. If you want to push back, get a lawyer and challenge the law.

[taperxz]

We issue on undetermined since, as my lawyer pointed out, the language to release on approved is actually the same language on undetermined. DOJ is not going after stores that deliver on undetermined since the law is the law and it is not unlawful to release on undetermined.

Until DOJ sends us a memo that says using the fed limits apply DL is acceptable and legal, no way we will take that ID. If Turners is lacking in their legal department, thats on them.

[shootsocal_dave]

We issue on undetermined since, as my lawyer pointed out, the language to release on approved is actually the same language on undetermined. DOJ is not going after stores that deliver on undetermined since the law is the law and it is not unlawful to release on undetermined.

Until DOJ sends us a memo that says using the fed limits apply DL is acceptable and legal, no way we will take that ID. If Turners is lacking in their legal department, thats on them.

Im willing to bet their legal team said go for it, because there's no legal reason you cant, other than the DOJ said so.

[acespawnshop]

Show me the PC that says it must be RealID? The PC I find says state issued drivers license or identification card. Nothing about RealID compliant.

DOJ bulletin is not PC

Show me in the PC where I'm required to put your lock info on the DROS? That's not there either. I don't think you understand how the licensing works for cal DOJ. We have to follow their regulations even if it's not in the PC. Another DOJ overstep would be the 1-30 rejections for federal officers, C&R with COE holders and such. You're argument is based on your feeling not facts and how things operate.

[acespawnshop]

We issue on undetermined since, as my lawyer pointed out, the language to release on approved is actually the same language on undetermined. DOJ is not going after stores that deliver on undetermined since the law is the law and it is not unlawful to release them.

What's interesting here is he thinks that we HAVE to release the firearm on approvals too. I can totally cancel the DROS should something come out that is amiss after DOJ has said the DROS has been approved. Such as straw purchasers or other situations where the buyer has somehow done something untward or suspicious. Remember when we as the dealers sign the 4473 and DROS we are attesting that everything in this transfer is on the up and up.

[acespawnshop]

We issue on undetermined since, as my lawyer pointed out, the language to release on approved is actually the same language on undetermined. DOJ is not going after stores that deliver on undetermined since the law is the law and it is not unlawful to release them.

What's interesting here is he thinks that we HAVE to release the firearm on approvals too. I can totally cancel the DROS should something come out that is amiss after DOJ has said the DROS has been approved. Such as straw purchasers or other situations where the buyer has somehow done something untward or suspicious. Remember when we as the dealers sign the 4473 and DROS we are attesting that everything in this transfer is on the up and up.

[taperxz]

What's interesting here is he thinks that we HAVE to release the firearm on approvals too. I can totally cancel the DROS should something come out that is amiss after DOJ has said the DROS has been approved. Such as straw purchasers or other situations where the buyer has somehow done something untward or suspicious. Remember when we as the dealers sign the 4473 and DROS we are attesting that everything in this transfer is on the up and up.

Yep, we have had times where a gun was in DROS and a PD has called to try to stop the sale. I tell the PD i can't stop the sale since they are not in the store but calling from a phone with no caller ID. I do tell them to call DOJ and explain to them whats going on and DOJ will kill the DROS. It has happened.

We can't psycho analyze every person like in the case of the you tube idiot. We do our best to not sell to someone who isn't right in our opinon. A person can be totally cool when buying and then do a Jeckle and Hyde on a pick up. We can and will kill a DROS and give a full refund even on the DROS and take a loss. No FFL wants to sell a gun to anyone that might put people at risk when there are obvious concerns. Not acting right, drunk, high or whatever.

[Condorguns]

Show me the PC that says it must be RealID? The PC I find says state issued drivers license or identification card. Nothing about RealID compliant.

DOJ bulletin is not PC

Although not PC a DOJ bulletin is grounds for a write up if you fail to follow it. I don't want or need the headache of trying to fix this issue a year after the sale when they find it during a records check.

We all ***** and complain and try get things corrected when other DOJ regs go against what PC says, so why not the same pushback on this?

What is there to push back about. The problem has more to do with California DMV than CADOJ. CADOJ was very clear before these non real ID's started being issued to legal California residents. A AB60 ID is absolutely not allowed to be used to purchase firearms in the sate of California. I may know that the person who has the AB60 license is not an illegal alien but the person doing the inspection won't know that. Who exactly do you want us to push back against? We have called and complained but other than that until DMV stops trying to make everyone an illegal our hands are tied.


When CADOJ "advises" you something they are "telling you". You might find a few shops willing to roll the dice on this one but most of us are smart enough to see the traps here. Folks are getting confused because BATF is publishing statements that say it's ok to accept this license if it was issued after January. That all good and well if BATF was other only person who had the ability to kill our license. CADOJ can yank the license also and they are actively trying to find ways to take out California FFL's. Like I said before we have been doing this a VERY longtime. This is a classic CADOJ move to hang uninformed FFL's. I hope things work out for your several shops and your Turners.

[IRONWILL]

So I went to the DMV not knowing anything about this and renewed my ca DL in feb it’s says fed limits apply I had some rifles on consignment at a local gun store , I decided to go pick up my firearms up, I find out I have to re dros my own guns madness and then the dros system kicked it cause of this fed limits apply nonsense and my FFL a freind is holding my firearms until I can go back to the DMV the get a real DL complete madness as my old lic did not have fed limits apply total nonsense , I have to get out of this state

[shark92651]

So as I understand it Turner's IS taking the "Federal Limits Apply" licenses for firearms transactions. An employee called two different locations and they both said they are taking them. Are they in for a world of hurt in their next audit, or do they know something we all don't and are reaping the benefits? We recently received a 1-star Yelp review because we wouldn't perform a PPT with an AB60 license, but Turner's welcomed him with open arms and received a very nice 5-star review in return.

[ugimports]

So as I understand it Turner's IS taking the "Federal Limits Apply" licenses for firearms transactions. An employee called two different locations and they both said they are taking them. Are they in for a world of hurt in their next audit, or do they know something we all don't and are reaping the benefits? We recently received a 1-star Yelp review because we wouldn't perform a PPT with an AB60 license, but Turner's welcomed him with open arms and received a very nice 5-star review in return.

Do whatever your lawyers tell you. I'm small and tell folks up front we can't take them yet until DOJ tells us they are good to go.

The ATF can say all they want, but the last bulletin I have from CA DOJ last year says they are no good.

I would think it's easy enough for them to publish a bulletin if they agreed with the ATF.

BTW: Anecdotally --- I remember at a gun show a few years ago I heard someone telling their friend when they were filling out the 4473 -- "Just mark US citizen, they don't check..."

I would hazard to guess that if a DL is valid (say pre AB60) and no other criminal record DOJ has no idea person is not a citizen. And my guess is if you take an AB60 license DOJ still doesn't know it's an AB60 license. There is a corner case chance an illegal will obtain a firearm if you accept it and they lie on the 4473. That's the risk in my opinion that would likely impact retail stores more.

[kemasa]

So as I understand it Turner's IS taking the "Federal Limits Apply" licenses for firearms transactions. An employee called two different locations and they both said they are taking them. Are they in for a world of hurt in their next audit, or do they know something we all don't and are reaping the benefits? We recently received a 1-star Yelp review because we wouldn't perform a PPT with an AB60 license, but Turner's welcomed him with open arms and received a very nice 5-star review in return.

That is a good question. I have not heard of any changes. If they don't take a copy of the CA ID/DL due to the reader working, it might be that they won't get caught.