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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison, Federalist No. 51 (1787) -
Thats my point, you deal with bad guys. You see it often, you have a jaded view. Not all marijuana smokers are thugs.
I see police brutality often, should I assume all police will abuse their powers? Or should I say just because I've been beat by a cop I should hate every one? Or maybe I should assume I just got a bad apple. Sure its happened multiple times, and damn straight I have a clean record, but do I think all cops are losers, no! Might I be skeptical but I would hold my judgement until I actually knew who I'm dealing with.
You don't like people generalizing about the police yet you can hardly refrain from the act yourself.
You know the man died from a gun though, guns are dangerous! Lets make those illegal..... 100% of all shootings start out with a gun mind you.Believe as you wish. I believe differently.
Last year a 20 Y/O in the city in which I live who had a MJ medical card for a bogus "back injury" bought his weed at a LA dispensary. He brought it back to his home and was in the process of selling it when he was shot by one of his routine customers and friends who wanted to rip him off.
Marijuana the harmless drug.
Last edited by Rhythm of Life; 03-01-2011, 8:44 PM.The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.Comment
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I wish you would take the time to respond to all of the points brought against your arguments. I am curious to see the rational arguments against the points other posters are bringing up. Using an anecdote of a rare extreme occurrence is a technique I've seen made popular by the Brady Campaign.
I am not a cannabis user but know unsuccessful users as well as very successfulness ones. It does not seem to be the variable.Last edited by cmogi10; 03-01-2011, 9:03 PM.Comment
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When I first started, I made a couple of mj arrests. Then I started thinking it was kind of weak. Booze does a whole lot more damage to society then weed does. So I quit popping people for it. Judges didn't seem to care anyways. Now if it was tweek, H, or coke, your @$$ was mine. Specially tweek, I hate that shizz.Former political prisoner who escaped on 9-24-23.Comment
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+1 This is my field experience with the drug also.
Federally Marijuana is still a CI controlled substance. Take your legalization aruguement there instead of here...oh...wait...we didn't legalize it here in CA either...but we've made it an infraction.
DEA just listed the synthetic canabonids as CI also...I wonder why?
Maybe because it is totally untested on anything and comes from who knows where chemical factory.
How do you know what is in that packet someone gave you? You don't. Drugs regulated by the FDA are made under something called Good Manufacturing Practice which is an inherent Quality system. The factory's are inspected every other year in excrutiating detail. Are the weed dispensaries? Look at the DEA microgram reports on Ecstacy...very little is actual MDMA. Is that weed you picked up really Marijuana? You do not know what you get. What if someone gave you PCP, Salvia or one of synthetics and you ended up a mental vegtable? Is weed still harmless?
What about the 18 year old who gets cited for 11357 and wants a future job in the US .gov? Kiss any future military career goodbye. Is weed still harmless? I didn't inhale.
Minors are getting it and using it from their "medical marijuana" card holding friends, who have an aunt, uncle or grandma that gets it on the card and gives it to them. I do not believe any drug should be given to minors other than from their legal guardian and I wished a weed proponent would agree with me on the no weed to minors instead of blindly saying "its harmless".
My only problem with the pro-weed agenda is the zealousness (used by so many on this thread) to claim it is harmless yet the blindness to the many examples LEs have been presented in this forum.
I simply wish there was some honesty from the proponents as simple as "yes I can understand how a cop would see it as harmless" or "we really don't know, it should be studied more".
I'm 98 here."Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022
NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member
GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer
Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun!
I instruct it if you shoot it.Comment
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Whatever happened to personal freedom?+1 This is my field experience with the drug also.
Federally Marijuana is still a CI controlled substance. Take your legalization aruguement there instead of here...oh...wait...we didn't legalize it here in CA either...but we've made it an infraction.
DEA just listed the synthetic canabonids as CI also...I wonder why? Maybe because it is totally untested on anything and comes from who knows where chemical factory.
How do you know what is in that packet someone gave you? You don't. Drugs regulated by the FDA are made under something called Good Manufacturing Practice which is an inherent Quality system. The factory's are inspected every other year in excrutiating detail. Are the weed dispensaries? Look at the DEA microgram reports on Ecstacy...very little is actual MDMA. Is that weed you picked up really Marijuana? You do not know what you get. What if someone gave you PCP, Salvia or one of synthetics and you ended up a mental vegtable? Is weed still harmless?
What about the 18 year old who gets cited for 11357 and wants a future job in the US .gov? Kiss any future military career goodbye. Is weed still harmless? I didn't inhale.
Minors are getting it and using it from their "medical marijuana" card holding friends, who have an aunt, uncle or grandma that gets it on the card and gives it to them. I do not believe any drug should be given to minors other than from their legal guardian and I wished a weed proponent would agree with me on the no weed to minors instead of blindly saying "its harmless".
My only problem with the pro-weed agenda is the zealousness (used by so many on this thread) to claim it is harmless yet the blindness to the many examples LEs have been presented in this forum.
I simply wish there was some honesty from the proponents as simple as "yes I can understand how a cop would see it as harmless" or "we really don't know, it should be studied more".
I'm 98 here.
You are free to be responsible. It's the person, not the pot. End of story."If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison, Federalist No. 51 (1787)Comment
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prop 19 email from a few months ago...
The following email contains evidence for why conservatives should support Cannabis legalization.
If you are an individual that does not value freedom, responsibility, liberty, and logic; please delete this email now.
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The conservative voice of San Diego & now the nation, Roger Hedgecock has endorsed proposition 19!
(2010 Elections tab)
Conservative retired Superior Court Judge James P. Gray explains in depth why you should support proposition 19 this November
Conservative activist and mother of two, Jessica Corry explains why proposition 19 should be something you should support this November
Former federal judge and senior judicial analyist for Fox News explains why you should support Prop 19
Republican congressman Paul explains why Marijuana should be legal
Comprehensive 'debunking' of the most commonly used desperate anti-prop 19 arguments...
There is a reason why more and more cops, police cheif's, sheriff's, & prosecutors are supporting legalization...
U.S. Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders explains why she supports cannabis legalization
~~
Have you ever had your front door knocked down by 20 men with assault rifles who then proceed to murder your family pets?
This family, and many others have lived through such a tragedy.
~~
In the other countries that have legalized cannabis the following took place...
Overall usage DROPPED. (It stops being edgy when you have to buy it from Walmart & get carded...)
Violence plummeted. (Criminals have no recourse when the profit motive is swept out from underneath
them)
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Ask yourself the following questions...
Which is more likely to result in violence?
A group of people drinking alcohol, or a group of people smoking cannabis?
When was the last time you saw bootleggers shooting each other?
Why do drug dealers deal drugs? = The profit motive...
Why don't drug dealers deal alcohol? = The profit motive is gone...
If you can't win a war on drugs in a prison... where do you think you're going to win it?
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If all the logic and reasoning above aren't enough to convince you to take back your personal liberty... then perhaps I should direct you to a more emotional explanation...
~~
More information about this proposition and all the others can be found here at an awesome wiki site called ballotpedia!
Comment
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Yes. I do. If your personal freedom causes you to tramp all over the personal freedom of another, you should lose that freedom. Until you can prove to society that you are no longer a threat, don't do it. If you do, face the consequences.Ya, look how good no gun zones do right
I agree that someones right to do something stops when it starts effecting others, I totally agree..
In terms of stripping someones right of something, do you think we should strip a drunk drivers right to drink alcohol? Or a domestic abuser?
How many domestic violence calls do you/your colleagues go on? How many of them involve alcohol? (this isn't about alcohol, but a point about laws. Using this as an example)
If you stripped those offenders of the right to stop drinking, do you think they will stop drinking because you said so, and do you think you will stop showing up at their door? No, you will show up at their door to arrest them for domestic violence PLUS drinking, since its illegal for them to.
Making more and more laws does 'nothing'.. We need to address the problem: people.
The problem is people, and it starts at home, with the family.
I get the law would be protocol, but we all know damn well it does nothing but make him pay more money or serve more time. It does nothing to help solve the problem.
BTW, I feel all violent felons should have their 2A rights stripped under the same circumstances... Enough time passes and they can prove they are no linger a threat, they can have the rights back.
Again, I don't give a damn about some junkie or if he wants to ruin his life... His/her choice. I want us to have the personal freedom our founders intended. DO I think we are ready for it??? NO. We as a society currently lack the responsibility. Hold people responsible for their actions, whether you agree with the law or not.
When you have a lady sue a furniture store that does not have a sign saying watch your kids, then trips on her own kid and wins millions, we have problems. Problems that won't be fixed either way."Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~Comment
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The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.Comment
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~Comment
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"Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022
NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member
GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer
Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun!
I instruct it if you shoot it.Comment
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What are they to be held accountable for? A man smokes a joint, watches TV, eats food and goes to sleep. Who did he hurt? Himself? Maybe, but thats his choice.
That is no other mindset than that of the anti-gunners. Outlaw it before anything can happen. Marijuana ruin lives, make it illegal. Guns kill people, make it illegal. But somehow they don't see the responsible gun owners, they don't see the responsible marijuana smokers.
So you having firearms might allow someone to be killed, your right to own them should be stripped. You cannot refute the evidence that guns kill people.Last edited by Rhythm of Life; 03-01-2011, 11:11 PM.The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.Comment
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Not "jaded" just experienced. Many many of the "wasted" were adolescents. Who through marijuana use ruined their family and their own lives.
Of course not. But many are and even more are just lost soles without any drive to improve themselves.
I'll bet you have never actually seen in person any "police brutality". You have probably seen video's . But If you have seen even one police use of force I would be surprised.
No generalization. Just observations after 30 years of seeing many many marijuana users with wasted broken and unproductive lives.
You can't blame a piece of metal. It did not act on it's own.
The DRUG DEALER died because one of his DRUG BUYING so called friends killed him so he could take his HARMLESS marijuana.Poke'm with a stick!
Originally posted by fiddletownComment
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Intentionally inhaling any kind of smoke is not healthy. Haven't the effects of tobacco smoking been proven?
MJ smoke contains more of some of the most harmful substances which are also found in tobacco smoke.
Ibuprofen is a non narcotic pain reliever with no hallucinogenic effects. Vicodin is a narcotic available only with a real doctors prescription, and used to treat real pain not "frustrations".
Yup alcohol is the number one abused substance. But we are talking about marijuana right?
It becomes my business when the hundreds of thousands who seek treatment for marijuana related issues and cannot pay for them. Who pays. My the tax payer. In addition it's my business when marijuana users drive there vehicles while high.
I see it quite often people in their cars puffing away on their fancy glass MJ pipes.
Here is some info on the health effects of marijuana use.
* Marijuana is an addictive drug with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
* The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
* In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
* There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
* Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
* Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
* Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
* Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
* More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999 "Cannabis smokers end up with five times more carbon monoxide in their bloodstream (than tobacco smokers)...
In the near future we may see an 'epidemic' of lung cancers connected with this new carcinogen. And the future risk probably applies to many other countries, where increasing use of cannabis among young adults and adolescents is becoming a major public health problem."
Jan. 29, 2008 - Richard Beasley
Donald P. Tashkin, MD, Director of the Pulmonary Function Laboratories at the University of California, Los Angeles, wrote in his Mar. 1997 article for the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention titled "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and Its Immune Defenses":
"Analysis of the smoke contents of marijuana and tobacco reveals much the same gas phase constituents, including chemicals known to be toxic to respiratory tissue.[...]
With regard to the carcinogenic potential of marijuana, it is noteworthy that the tar phase of marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogenic compounds contained in tobacco smoke, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, such as benz[a]pyrene, which was recently identified as a key factor promoting human lung cancer.[...]
Bronchial immunohistology revealed overexpression of genetic markers of lung tumor progression in smokers of marijuana.
Preliminary findings suggest that marijuana smoke activates cytochrome P4501A1, the enzyme that converts polycyclic hydrocarbons, such as benz[a]pyrene, into active carcinogens."
Mar. 1997 - Donald P. Tashkin, MD
The American College of Physicians wrote in its Feb. 15, 2008 position paper, "Supporting Research into the Therapeutic Role of Marijuana":
"The chronic effects of smoked marijuana are of much greater concern, as its gas and tar phases contain many of the same compounds as tobacco smoke. Chronic use of smoked marijuana is associated with increased risk of cancer, lung damage, bacterial pneumonia, and poor pregnancy outcomes."
Feb. 15, 2008 - American College of Physicians (ACP)
Jeanette M. Tetrault, MD, Clinical Epidemiologist at the Connecticut Department of Veterans Affairs, et al., stated in the article "Effects of Marijuana Smoking on Pulmonary Function and Respiratory Complications: A Systematic Review," published in the Feb. 12, 2007 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine:
"Conclusions: Short-term exposure to marijuana is associated with bronchodilation [opening of the air passages]. Physiologic data were inconclusive regarding an association between long-term marijuana smoking and airflow obstruction measures. [/b]Long-term marijuana smoking is associated with increased respiratory symptoms suggestive of obstructive lung disease."[/b]
Feb. 12, 2007 - Jeanette M. Tetrault, MD
Charles Ksir, PhD, Professor of Psychology at the University of Wyoming, and Oakley Ray, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Pharmacology at Vanderbilt University, wrote in their 2004 textbook Drugs, Society and Human Behavior:
"Experiments have shown that chronic, daily smoking of marijuana impairs air flow in and out of the lungs. It is hard to tell yet whether years of such an effect results in permanent, major obstructive lung disease in the same way that smoking tobacco cigarettes does.
Also, there is no direct evidence linking marijuana smoking to lung cancer in humans. Remember that it took many years of cigarette smoking by millions of Americans before the links between tobacco and lung cancer and other lung diseases were shown...
Everyone suspects that marijuana smoking will eventually be shown to cause cancer, but how much of a problem this will be, compared with tobacco, is hard to say."
2004 - Oakley Ray, PhD
Charles Ksir, PhD
Theodore A. Sarafian, et al., in their June 1999 study, "Oxidative Stress Produced by Marijuana Smoke," published in the American Journal of Respiratory Cell and Molecular Biology, stated:
"Marijuana (MJ) smoking produces inflammation, edema, and cell injury in the tracheobronchial mucosa of smokers and may be a risk factor for lung cancer...
We conclude that MJ [marijuana] smoke containing Delta-9-THC is a potent source of cellular oxidative stress that could contribute significantly to cell injury and dysfunction in the lungs of smokers."
June 1999 - Ted Sarafian, PhD
The British Lung Foundation noted in a Nov. 2002 report, "A Smoking Gun":
"3-4 Cannabis cigarettes a day are associated with the same evidence of acute and chronic bronchitis and the same degree of damage to the bronchial mucosa as 20 or more tobacco cigarettes a day.
Cannabis smoking is likely to weaken the immune system. Infections of the lung are due to a combination of smoking-related damage to the cells lining the bronchial passage and impairment of the principal immune cells in the small air sacs caused by cannabis.
The evidence concerning a possible link between cannabis smoking and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) has not yet been conclusively established. A number of studies indicate a causal relationship between the two whereas others contradict these findings.
Research linking cannabis smoking to the development of respiratory cancer exists although there have also been conflicting findings. Not only does the tar in a cannabis cigarette contain many of the same known carcinogens as tobacco smoke but the concentrations of these are up to 50% higher in the smoke of a cannabis cigarette. It also deposits four times as much tar on the respiratory tract as an unfiltered cigarette of the same weight. Smokers of cannabis and tobacco have shown a greater increase in cellular abnormalities indicating a cumulative effect of smoking both.
The THC in cannabis has been shown to have a short term bronchodilator effect. This has lead to suggestions that THC may have therapeutic benefits in asthma. However, the noxious gases, chronic airway irritation or malignancy after long term use associated with smoking would seem likely to negate these benefits."
Nov. 2002 - British Lung Foundation
A Smoking Gun (200 KB)
Americans for Safe Access, a medical marijuana advocacy group, stated in its website article "Research: Definitions and Explanations" (accessed Dec. 7, 2006):
"...there are 483 different identifiable chemical constituents known to exist in cannabis. The most distinctive and specific class of compounds are the cannabinoids (66 known), that are only known to exist in the cannabis plant.
Other constituents of the cannabis plant are: nitrogenous compounds (27 known), amino acids (18), proteins (3), glycoproteins (6), enzymes (2), sugars and related compounds (34), hydrocarbons (50), simple alcohols (7), aldehydes (13), ketones (13), simple acids (21), fatty acids (22), simple esters (12), lactones (1), steroids (11), terpenes (120), non-cannabinoid phenols (25), flavonoids (21), vitamins (1) [Vitamin A], pigments (2), and elements (9).Poke'm with a stick!
Originally posted by fiddletownComment
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I don't like it, I think it's bull**** to start trivializing crime. This latest change to make possession under an ounce an infraction is just their reaction to the failed legalization move.
People are so nonchalant about it that enforcement is a joke.
Whatever, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.I like guns
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