MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[edwardm]

Exactly. They would tap you, on at least one count, for "manufacturing". Except how do you "manufacture" that which is *already* manufactured, and exempt due to adherence to the registration requirement?

"It's more assault-y!" is not a coherent legal theory. But this state's judicial system is anything but coherent. However, I stand in the same place as you.

[Quickdraw559]

I would rather frustrate the legislative intent. But, I'm going a step further. I'm going to pick one BB-equipped rifle, photograph it with a BB at the time registration opens, install a standard release thereafter, photograph it again, and then register it.

The balls on this guy.

Keep us updated. Start livestreaming if they raid you.

[danez71]

So, I register it in configuration with BB. I get my paperwork that it's registered. Then, against their wishes, I remove BB.

I get arrested at some point and we are in court. They say "you have an AW." I say "DOH, of course it's an AW," so we establish the facts and actually agree that it's an non-BB AW.

Now, I flash my registration and claim exemption from *criminal* possession of an AW. What are they going to claim? (Remember, anything BB is irrelevant since we all •agreed• above it's an AW.)

(added the bold and the strike thru)

Youre taking a giant leap of assumption.


Continuing on in the way I, and many others, see it...

Then they say 'you are in possession of a non-BB AW per the regulations that you were aware of when you registered it that stated you can not change/remove it; you willfully violated the terms of the regulations and therefore you willfully/intentionally are in possession of an unregistered non-BB AW per the regulations that your were aware of and agreed to when you initially registered your BB AW'.

The judge will say

You will go bye-bye

All the anti 2Aers will cheer

[bhp1410]

Do your really think the CADOJ is going to give latitude?

I don't understand where the latitude is. PSA 16in uppers have no serial number and look exactly the same. What is unreasonable about someone wanting to build 4 or 5 16in m4 rifles? There would be no way for them to tell. They can't ask for a receipt, they could be legally purchased with cash and no receipt.

[Mayor McRifle]

"5472 (B) The department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm is featureless"

"5471 (o)Featureless means a semi-automatic(rifle, pistol, shotgun) lacking the characteristics in california penal code section 30515"

Looks like Ifilef's interpretation was not correct.

Besides Smedkcuf and Dieselpower, is anyone surprised? Seriously, anyone?

#1- I don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

#2- This reg does not conform to 30900(b)(1) and 30680 statutory language.

#3- I don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

So now everyone, including the DOJ is wrong, and you're still right?

1. That's a good one. Would have to think about it.

2. You can't register without the BB. You have to provide digital photos of it. And there is no exemption because firearm without BB NOT eligible for registration as not lawfully possessed prior to 1/1/2017.

3. There's an internal type of 'appeal' process mentioned somewhere in those new regs.

I'm confused here. In an effort to still maintain that you were right about being required to register all featureless rifles that were originally purchased with a bullet button up to 16 years ago, are you now saying that the reason the DOJ won't even let you register them if you wanted to is because they weren't "lawfully possessed" prior to 2017?

[HK Dave]

What concerns me is that given how poorly written it all is, like the magazine "emergency" rules situation... DOJ has put this out and is now enjoying reading these pages to figure out exactly how to make it worse with the loose lips.

[Whiskey_Tango]

This was going to be one of my possible solutions, with my own serial # engraved.

However, every 80% lower must now carry a DOJ assigned serial #.

Most pistol ARs in this state are built on 80% lowers.

WTF?

And every 80% MUST have a DOJ assigned serial # now? Even if featureless and already engraved?

The FUD around this is choking the law abiding citizen to DEATH.

ONLY if you are registering the pistol. Otherwise your ATF compliant markings are gtg.

[Malthusian]

I don't understand where the latitude is. PSA 16in uppers have no serial number and look exactly the same. What is unreasonable about someone wanting to build 4 or 5 16in m4 rifles? There would be no way for them to tell. They can't ask for a receipt, they could be legally purchased with cash and no receipt.

Your preaching to the choir

You cannot build an AR defined assault weapon after today

They can ask for any information they deem necessary and you will have 30 days to comply, at which point the registration is cancelled

Some members took photos of the assembled items before the end of the year

Today would be a good time to take your photos and mail them to yourself as an insurance policy just in case

My .02

YMMV

[Quickdraw559]

I don't understand where the latitude is. PSA 16in uppers have no serial number and look exactly the same. What is unreasonable about someone wanting to build 4 or 5 16in m4 rifles? There would be no way for them to tell. They can't ask for a receipt, they could be legally purchased with cash and no receipt.

The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon unless the firearm is fully assembled and fully functional.

A description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including but not limited to: firearm type, make, model caliber firearm color barrel length serial number all identification marks, firearm country of or manufacturer the date the firearm was acquired, the name and address of the individual from whom or business from which the firearm was acquired.

Clear digital photos of firearms listed on the application. One photo shall depict the bullet button style magazine release installed on the firearm One photo shall depict the firearm from the end of the barrel to the end of the stock if it is a long~gun or the point furthest from the end of the barrel if it is a pistol. The other two photos shall show the left side of the receiver/frame and right side of the receiver/frame These locations are typically ..firearms are marked when manufacturing is complete At the discretion of the Department the last two photos shall be substituted for photos of identification markings at some other : locations on the firearm.

Careful....

[Malthusian]

(b) Once the registration has been submitted electronically and fees have been laid, the Department will inform the applicant, via email, that the application: has been received and accepted for processing; is being returned as incomplete and specify what information is required; or has been rejected.

(c) If the Department deems an application incomplete and notifies the applicant via email of the incomplete determination, the applicant shall provide the requested information or documentation within 30 days. If the Department does nat receive the additional information or documentation within 30 days, the application will be rejected and the application fee will not be refunded. The applicant may complete a new application before December 31, 2017, subject to a new application fee.

The language is pretty clear

[Regular guy]

I agree. I wish and hope for zero registrations.

Some people really love those ridiculous billet buttons though.

Some people prefer those ridiculous bullet buttons over taking apart the action to reload/ top loading , or losing their pistol grip and other evil features that add comfort and proper control. There are also people that have long guns purchased after 1/1/14. These are the people that will register and will enjoy their rifles as best they can until the day they die, move out of state, or have to turn them in along with the featureless folks. All SACF rifle owners are in the same boat should the confiscation day ever come. If anything, registered Rifles might even survive longer- and they can be deregistered and made featureless should it become more attractive in the future.

[Oneaudiopro]

I agree with you completely! I want to see the DOJ squirm when they try and explain how they can have 2 separate definitions for an AW. This will definitely end up in the courts.

[Nor*Cal]

What concerns me is that given how poorly written it all is, like the magazine "emergency" rules situation... DOJ has put this out and is now enjoying reading these pages to figure out exactly how to make it worse with the loose lips.

This is not like the magazine regulations. These "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" regulations are final. They were clearly marked as "file & print" with an affective date of 1/1/17. Only through the court will any of this get changed or updated.

[Quickdraw559]

Is this where it pairs uppers and lowers, permanently?

With regards to an AR-15 style firearm if a complete upper receiver and a complete lower receiver are completely detached from one another, but still in the possession or under the custody or control of the same person the firearm is not a semiautomatic firearm.

Adding a different upper, barrel, etc., would be an unauthorized change to your AW, no? Simply removing the upper make it "not a firearm." Would putting the upper back on be considered manufacturing a firearm? Would you be committing a violation of registration by replacing the upper? That is NOT the one you took a picture of, it is NOT the one that was there when you registered. If they catch you, you're burned right?

A stripped AR-15 lower receiver when sold at a California gun store is not a semiautomatic firearm. (The action type among other things is undetermined)

They make clear in several instances the difference between a completed and fully functional firearm (which is what will be registered) vs anything else.

[TOM_ONE]

Way too many assumptions about this.

Let's say I register, then take off BB. I get arrested and they try to prosecute me. What statute are they going to prosecute me under and what is the penalty?

Let's say I *first* remove BB, then register without BB. They arrest me for BB-less gun, yet I have an explicit exemption for possession of AW during 2017. How are they going to charge me and what is the penalty.

Let's say I *try to* register, but they refuse. That's a lawsuit.

This has probably been replied to, but this is as far as i've made it in this thread so far.

Since you have to send photographs with your registration, chances are they won't approve your RAW with a standard magazine release. Then charge you with tampering because you showed them a different magazine release than what you actually had.