MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[IVC]

No way this regulation can be successfully challenged IMO.

The challenge would be about the *refusal* to register a firearm that fits the definition of the law (was BB prior to 2017, is an AW in 2017 due to BB/detachable magazine law).

Do you think it would be unwinnable (it's a serious question, not a smart@$$ rhetorical one)?

[Scott5182]

Recently there have been dangerous speeding wheelbarrows in my neighborhood. So...The anti wheelbarrow people decided to ban all wheelbarrows by name as to be sure no one can push them fast here anymore unless the register them with the state of Komifornia. Done.
Well there was a work around....A crafty American made a wheelbarrow that is of another brand name and is now selling it. It goes just as fast when the guy down the street pushes it. So lets ban it by features....ball bearing wheels, two poles to push, and a large cavity for carrying cargo. Right? Done.

Another crafty American made a wheelbarrow with a different name from the first list and changed the two pole push method with a large single pole. The cargo was also restricted by law to two grocery bags, even though it could structurally handle 8. The new single pole was not convenient to push but a doable work around for the speeding wheelbarrow enthusiast to continuing posessing....However, legal to have.
Now.... no one has been given a citation for speeding the two grocery bag restricted wheelbarrow in the neighborhood with any of the features of illegal wheelbarrows in 26 years.... but they are still so very dangerous speeding around the neighborhood with two bags of groceries in all of the various configurations to the people that don't like wheelbarrows of any type.
So the anti wheelbarrow people want to ban the wheelbarrows that were previously banned by name and feature but include the most recent legal single push pole and call it a dangerous wheelbarrow that is equally as dangerous as the two pole type listed by name and feature.....

Now the same people want to outlaw the inconvenient single push type and label it as dangerous as the first listed by name and the second listed by features.
But...according to the non pushing wheelbarrow people, the new wheelbarrows are equal to the others in all ways. So they want to make them illegal as well.
They also want to restrict the new wheelbarrows from being modified to work or look like any of the previously banned wheelbarrows because they are dangerous and can be pushed to speed as well.
So if you put a square tire on your wheelbarrow, restrict its cargo to 2 grocery bags and run it with a single push pole....its legal for you to have, otherwise you must register your wheelbarow with any configuration that includes a round wheel....

Confused???

UGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[Sousuke]

The definitions:
Detachable magazine (no tool needed)
Unable to accept a detachable magazine (tool needed, no disassembly)
Fixed magazine (disassembly of action)
Permanently attached magazine (welded or otherwise not removable)

Given that they are requiring the BB to remain in place after registration, it appears that they are indeed creating a new class, and thus, a BB'd AW with a detachable magazine would not be consistent with the registered configuration.

IOTW: The Mag Magnet changes the status from "Unable to accept a detachable magazine" to "Detachable magazine" thus the Felony Button remains a Felony Button.

I get what you are saying, but I don't see any of this in the regulation posted.

[God Bless America]

The only thing they can threaten you with is denying your registration if it isn't on in the photo as they were given authority to create the registration process and requirements, but they don't have authority to arbitrarily require certain features to remain on your AW after registration.

They don't have the authority to tell any RAW owner that their flash hider can't be changed to a brake, or that a adjustable stock can't be changed to a fixed one. Same with the mag release as the description of a detachable magazine is defined in law.

You are wrong, it will be a violation of the AW law. That is what "they" can and will charge you with.

Still removing your BB Sunday? Gonna register that way? Because they can't do that, right?

[tonyxcom]

So now that a rifle with a "bullet button" is NOT considered a fixed magazine, what exactly IS a fixed magazine?

One that can only be removed by disassembly of the action. That much has been clear since Brown signed SB880

[penguinman]

Recently there have been dangerous speeding wheelbarrows in my neighborhood. So...The anti wheelbarrow people decided to ban all wheelbarrows by name as to be sure no one can push them fast here anymore unless the register them with the state of Komifornia. Done.
Well there was a work around....A crafty American made a wheelbarrow that is of another brand name and is now selling it. It goes just as fast when the guy down the street pushes it. So lets ban it by features....ball bearing wheels, two poles to push, and a large cavity for carrying cargo. Right? Done.
Another crafty American made a wheelbarrow with a different name from the first list and changed the two pole push method with a large single pole. The cargo was also restricted by law to two grocery bags, even though it could structurally handle 8. The new single pole was not convenient to push but a doable work around for the speeding wheelbarrow enthusiast to continuing posessing....However, legal to have.
Now.... no one has been given a citation for speeding the two grocery bag restricted wheelbarrow in the neighborhood with any of the features of illegal wheelbarrows in 26 years.... but they are still so very dangerous speeding around the neighborhood with two bags of groceries in all of the various configurations to the people that don't like wheelbarrows of any type.
So the anti wheelbarrow people want to ban the wheelbarrows that were previously banned by name and feature but include the most recent legal single push pole and call it a dangerous wheelbarrow that is equally as dangerous as the two pole type listed by name and feature.....
Now they want to outlaw the inconvenient single push type and label it as dangerous as the first listed by name and the second listed by features.
But...according to the non pushing wheelbarrow people, the new wheelbarrows are equal to the others in all ways. So they want to make them illegal as well.
They also want to restrict the new wheelbarrows from being modified to work or look like any of the previously banned wheelbarrows because they are dangerous and can be pushed to speed as well.
So if you put a square tire on your wheelbarrow, restrict its cargo to 2 grocery bags and run it with a single push pole....its legal for you to have, otherwise you must register your wheelbarow with any configuration that includes a round wheel....

UGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Underrated post.

[ifilef]

The definitions:
Detachable magazine (no tool needed)
Unable to accept a detachable magazine (tool needed, no disassembly)
Fixed magazine (disassembly of action)
Permanently attached magazine (welded or otherwise not removable)

Given that they are requiring the BB to remain in place after registration, it appears that they are indeed creating a new class, and thus, a BB'd AW with a detachable magazine would not be consistent with the registered configuration.

IOTW: The Mag Magnet changes the status from "Unable to accept a detachable magazine" to "Detachable magazine" thus the Felony Button remains a Felony Button.

Hmmm..a BB requires a tool to remove the magazine.

First paragraph in 5471(m) they define detachable magazine as not requiring a tool to remove the magazine.

Therefore, a BB is not a detachable magazine because it requires a tool to remove the magazine.

It is not a fixed magazine, at least not as of 1/1/2017. See, 30900(b)(1), 30515.

But the second paragraph in (m) states a BB with a magnet constitutes a detachable magazine.

So, the addition of the magnet makes it detachable whereas it was NOT detachable standing alone.

If firearm is registered as an AW, what makes a felony here?

How does it conflict with the prohibition of not changing out the BB?

5477 (a): "The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered."

Thanks for your input.

[jcwatchdog]

You are wrong, it will be a violation of the AW law. That is what "they" can and will charge you with.

Still removing your BB Sunday? Gonna register that way? Because they can't do that, right?

That sounds good, now actually quote what a "violation of the AW law" penalizes you with. Specifically a law that says if you remove the bullet button, you will suffer X consequence. I doubt you can find one because it doesn't exist.

If you register with a bullet button, the registration is accepted and you remove the bullet button, what penalty will you incur if caught?

[2Aallday]

So...Reading the rules generally, does anybody else have the impression that the distinction between upper and lower is no more in the eyes of the DOJ? Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity and all, but...

[Crosshair-V]

Anyone see this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k1Grb8o9nM

Was going to go featureless but this could be another option.

[ugimports]

The definitions:
Detachable magazine (no tool needed)
Unable to accept a detachable magazine (tool needed, no disassembly)
Fixed magazine (disassembly of action)
Permanently attached magazine (welded or otherwise not removable)

Given that they are requiring the BB to remain in place after registration, it appears that they are indeed creating a new class, and thus, a BB'd AW with a detachable magazine would not be consistent with the registered configuration.

IOTW: The Mag Magnet changes the status from "Unable to accept a detachable magazine" to "Detachable magazine" thus the Felony Button remains a Felony Button.

Which part of the PC says "If you convert an AW to an AW is a felony". I don't recall seeing the penalty for making an AW a different looking AW.

[lordmorgul]

That sounds good, now actually quote what a "violation of the AW law" penalizes you with. Specifically a law that says if you remove the bullet button, you will suffer X consequence. I doubt you can find one because it doesn't exist.



If you register with a bullet button, the registration is accepted and you remove the bullet button, what penalty will you incur if caught?

Such lawful penalty clearly does not exist, but it may be that the DOJ intends to use that clause to revoke registrations if caught in that configuration. If they did, post 2018, there may be no grace period to fix features making it an issue to have it immediately revoked as not a valid registration.

This needs to be fought in the courts and I'm sure is already in progress.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[penguinman]

That sounds good, now actually quote what a "violation of the AW law" penalizes you with. Specifically a law that says if you remove the bullet button, you will suffer X consequence. I doubt you can find one because it doesn't exist.

If you register with a bullet button, the registration is accepted and you remove the bullet button, what penalty will you incur if caught?

Probably possession or possibly manufacture of an Unregistered AW since you took it out of its legally registered configuration.

[Shadowdrop]

They'll consider you breaking their rules a revocation of your AW registration. Now you are holding an un-registered AW. They do not need the law to specify removing/modifying your BB. They make the rules for the AW Club and will kick you out if you try to get fancy.

[gdt82]

IOTW: The Mag Magnet changes the status from "Unable to accept a detachable magazine" to "Detachable magazine" thus the Felony Button remains a Felony Button.

The question is what felony would you be charged with? Penal code 30515 defines assault weapons, but then code 30680 and 30900 allow for registration. Post registration, if you modify the mag release you have violated the DOJ regulations but you have not violated anything in the penal code directly, and in fact, much of the DOJ regulations are inconsistent with the language in the penal code. So I imagine they would try and charge you with failing to comply with 30900, because you didn't abide by the regulations, but because the regulations themselves are inconsistent with the penal code, this would be a tenuous case (but clearly not something anybody wants to test in criminal court). This whole thing is a complete mess.