Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Wildcatter]

Ok, things are looking up, you're well into minute of Grizzle at 200+yds and assuming that those Gold bullets are up to snuff, and they sound like they are, BINGO, dead anything!!!

Can you post any close up pics of the primers?

Can you seat those bullets out any further (ideally 2.250" OAL), don't worry about the canallure placement?

[Slash2]

Can you post any close up pics of the primers?

Can you seat those bullets out any further (ideally 2.250" OAL), don't worry about the canallure placement?

I'll try to get some pictures of the primers today, but I can tell you they all looked fine, little if any flattening.

As far as seating the bullets out further, I don't think so, at 2.15" AOL there is only about 3/16" of the bullet in the case, any further out and I'd think you'd have to hot melt glue the bullet to the end of case. Maybe a little duct tape.....

The case on the far left is a fresh factory round

[Wildcatter]

I was just asked about this again.

For years we used the GI mags without fault. The cartridges in the stack tend to tilt up a little when one lifts the bullet point, but feeding was and is never a problem. BM are prefectionist (thank God) and wanted a clean system, hence the deacated mag.

Running a half inch ball nose mill cutter down the center of th GI follower will yield a mag that has never given me any problems and 11 to 12 rounds, depending on the manufacture of the GI 30 rd mag.

[Wildcatter]

Good job slash, you're plowing new ground and I really do have high hopes for that bullet you've choosen (for massive, deep, terminal effects, over the full lenght of the wound cannel, I'm a FMJ-FP kind of guy, though I really do, want to get to a bottom line on those Barnes 275 & 200's too!). I can see the primers all right, but next time try to get a closer pic.

Is the bolt holding open on those 43 grainers now? Make sure that you single load with the mag inserted until you get your head around your situation.

I sure do not see any excessive pressure signs at all. I'd, with caution, suggest an increase in powder (h110) watch for excessive pressure signs and you make the call, in relation to safety. I think you'll end up in the 2500fps+ arena, which is 3500ft/lbs and with a 200yd zero, is 100% hits at 300yds (on a 8" paper plate), assuming you get the groups down a little. This blows the doors off the other big bore AR's and you haven't gotten to AA1680 yet, which will yield 200fps+ more than you are now getting with the same pressures. Note- Someting to consider, in extreme cold weather (zero or lower) the 296 will ignite better.

I plan to call Montana Gold and talk to their engineer and asertain how thick those 250 jackets are, if they are in fact thick enough, these may end up being the new gold standard.


Now, for cooler, sane-er heads. Randy, I sure do not see any pressure signs at all, what do you think?


PS...you guys that requested brass, it should ship this week...t

[Slash2]

Here's the primer shot on the 43 gr. load, which looks fine.

Now I don't know if progressively larger groups were caused by the progressive increases in powder or the progressively increasing in pain in my shoulder after firing about 50 rounds, but I gotta tell ya those higher charges REALLY kick.

I'm personally thinking I want to focus in on an accurate load around 39 grs. If I could match the factory rounds for accuracy and velocity without spending a fortune on the bullets I'd be happy for now.

[ar15barrels]

Rifle primer should not show pressure signs at the pressures you should be running.

Try magnum pistol primers.
They are more suited to the pressure levels that are suited to that cartridge in an AR.
They will show you pressure signs before you get into trouble.
Rifle primers are not going to show signs before you are in trouble.

[Wildcatter]

Here's the primer shot on the 43 gr. load, which looks fine.

Now I don't know if progressively larger groups were caused by the progressive increases in powder or the progressively increasing in pain in my shoulder after firing about 50 rounds, but I gotta tell ya those higher charges REALLY kick.

I'm personally thinking I want to focus in on an accurate load around 39 grs. If I could match the factory rounds for accuracy and velocity without spending a fortune on the bullets I'd be happy for now.

[Slash2]

Okay Wildcatter, you're laying it on a little thick with the "sir" stuff, I just have limited time and a long drive to the range so I try to pack in as much per trip as I can.

Also, in hind sight I'm not even real sure why I bought this gun, other than I wanted a hard hitting carbine for the Tactical Rifle matches and maybe some pig hunting, neither usually require long range shots. Heck, I haven't been big game hunting in 25 years and probably won't be in the foreseeable future. I just had a typical case of the "I wants" over shadowing the "I needs" and now I've invested enough in the gun and the reloading equipment that I feel the need to dial it in to be what I bought it for, a hard hitting short to mid-range 1 shot 1 Zombie rifle.

If could get an accurate load to use with a 250gr or 275gr Barnes X solid copper bullet for pig hunting and one using the Montana gold bullets for knocking down steel plates, I'd be satisfied.

I appreciate all of the help, but I don't think I'm the guy to push the limits of what this gun is capable of, I don't have the need.

[Siringo]

Hello -- I have been reading these posts with great interest. I got my 450B last year and have been only shooting factory ammo -- which is extremely accurate. This weekend I shot my first reloads based on info from this forum. I used the Hornady 240 gr XTP/Mag, 38.5 grs of H110. I had the bullets seated 2 ways, one at the crimp grove and the other seated out a little further. I was only shooting at 60 yards. The factory ammo will put all the shots into one ragged hole. The reloads where a disappointment compared to the factory loads -- 1 1/2 inch groups. I did have some sporadic flyers and vertical stringing which would lead me to think I am not getting good ignition. I am using CCI Small Rifle Primers. Next time I will switch the Winchester brand and see how they work -- may be better with the ball powder. Also, I know that a longer ranger is needed, but I was up in the north woods in MN.


I have a curious question -- why would this round be made with small rifle primers versus large rifle as with the 284 case? Also, why are only standard primers used instead of magnum? Most all of H110 and W296 data in the reloading manuals requires the use of magnum primers. Maybe Wildcatter can shed some light on this!

[ar15barrels]

why are only standard primers used instead of magnum? Most all of H110 and W296 data in the reloading manuals requires the use of magnum primers.

Rifle primers are hotter than pistol primers, so if you are using a rifle primer, you should have no ignition problems.

[Siringo]

I have a correction to my orginal post -- I was using WW small rifle, not CCI small rifle mags.

[Siringo]

I just contacted Hornady and last week they recieved their load data. Lil'Gun, H110 and WW296 are top choices. Load data includes 240 gr XTP/Mag., 300 gr XTP/Mag, and 250 gr FT (factory).

The file is too big to post.

[Slash2]

I just contacted Hornady and last week they recieved their load data. Lil'Gun, H110 and WW296 are top choices. Load data includes 240 gr XTP/Mag., 300 gr XTP/Mag, and 250 gr FT (factory).

The file is too big to post.

Yes! Finally! I called and they are putting it in the mail for me today!

As a side note, and it will be interesting to see how it compares, but I'm finally getting some nice 1" 'ish groups at 100 yrds with the Montana Gold bullets using 39.3 grs of H110 and an OAL of 2.05".

[Siringo]

Whow! That is good. With the 250 gr FTX their max load is 39.2 grs of H110 with a velocity of 2100 fps. With Lil'Gun 37.0 grs gives 2200 fps and WW296 at 40.4 grs gives the same velocity. Based on their chart -- around 38.5 grs of WW296 would give about 2150 fps. All of the above velocities are with the 16 inch barrel. So 296 might be the powder that they are using. Especially if it is more stable in cold temperatures.

Does your load shoot to the same point of impact as the factory load? I want good accuracy and same point of impact -- at least to 100 yards.

BTW -- they will e-mail it to you.

[Slash2]

Whow! That is good. With the 250 gr FTX their max load is 39.2 grs of H110 with a velocity of 2100 fps. With Lil'Gun 37.0 grs gives 2200 fps and WW296 at 40.4 grs gives the same velocity. Based on their chart -- around 38.5 grs of WW296 would give about 2150 fps. All of the above velocities are with the 16 inch barrel. So 296 might be the powder that they are using. Especially if it is more stable in cold temperatures.

Does your load shoot to the same point of impact as the factory load? I want good accuracy and same point of impact -- at least to 100 yards.

BTW -- they will e-mail it to you.

Cool. Did they give the AOL on the 240 gr bullet?

I'm not sure on the Point of impact, this go 'round I didn't shoot any factory rounds, I just shot a bunch with the 39.3 gr load and the bullets seated at 2'', 2.05". 2.1" and 2.15". The 2.05" seemed the best group and each length had a different point of impact.