Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[jagermaster]

I called Hornady today and they e-mailed it to me.

Is the AOL the same as C.O.L ? If so it is 2.060"

Sorry I have not posted in a wile. I have been working hard not to loose my job but i lost it any way. O well life sucks but then you get to go shooting and its alright.

Slash I will e-mail it to you if you send me your e-mail.

I have not found the time to shoot enough rounds to have brass to reload but if i do not find something soon I will have lots of extra time.

[ar15barrels]

Is the AOL the same as C.O.L ?

AOL is an extremely anti-gun internet service provider catering to people with the intelligence level of mac users.
OAL is OverAll length.
COL is Cartridge Overall Length, the same as OAL.

Someone better claim that AOL quote for their signature.

[Slash2]

AOL is an extremely anti-gun internet service provider catering to people with the intelligence level of mac users.
OAL is OverAll length.
COL is Cartridge Overall Length, the same as OAL.

Someone better claim that AOL quote for their signature.

My bad, yes it is OAL, not the evil AOL, sorry!

And I couldn't wait for snail mail to bring me the news, so I called them back and they graciously e-mailed me the info, I can't believe I was within .1 gr of powder and .o1" of overall length with the 250 gr. Montana Gold bullet! (39.2 for a 250 gr bullet and 2.06 OAL for bullet like the XTP/MAG)

Now I just need real data on the Barnes X 200, 250 and 275 gr. XPB solid copper bullets for hunting pigs in Condor habitat and I'll be set.... well that and an actual place to go hunt pigs.....

[Slash2]

I have not found the time to shoot enough rounds to have brass to reload but if i do not find something soon I will have lots of extra time.

Ain't that the way it always works, if you've got the time, you ain't got the money, if you've got the money, you ain't got the time...

Sorry to hear about you losing your job jagermaster, I hope it all works out for the best in the long run for you.

[MudBug]

out of curiosity, did any of you that called them ask about a time frame for brass availability?

[ar15barrels]

I would like to point out that Hornady's load data goes right down the path that I recommend as well.
Their load of 39.2gr of H110 under a 250 XTP seated to 2.060 makes 38,300 PSI according to quickload.
Plug this into my thrust calculator and it shows 7500lbs of thrust.
That's 300lbs under the 7.62x39 spec for thrust which is generally considered the maximum that the AR can handle without having bolt problems.

I am personally a little more conservative, only going to 37,500 PSI on that case, or 38.9gr of H110 when a 250gr XTP is seated to 2.06" OAL.
That puts the thrust level at 7360, just 200lbs more thrust than the hottest nato 5.56 would make.

[jagermaster]

with some help i converted to pics

[Slash2]

I loaded up some rounds using H110 and the above data, substituting the Montana Gold 250gr for the Hornaday 250gr SST. I didn't crony them, I just wanted to see what kind of groups I'd get. 1.5" with the Hornaday 240gr and 2.25" with the Montana Gold bullets. 100yrds.

ar15barrels, I know Quickloads doesn't model Barnes X bullets, but would there be a way to fudge it to see what kind of loads might work with their 200gr XPB bullets? It'd be a 2.2" OAL with .375" in the case.

I'm thinking a lighter bullet plus higher velocity might equal a longer reach before it starts to really drop off. A 200gr bullet that starts out fatter than most expanded .30 cal bullets is going to pack quite a whollop at 200yrds if you can get it there accurately.

[jagermaster]

I loaded up some rounds using H110 and the above data, substituting the Montana Gold 250gr for the Hornaday 250gr SST. I didn't crony them, I just wanted to see what kind of groups I'd get. 1.5" with the Hornaday 240gr and 2.25" with the Montana Gold bullets. 100yrds.

ar15barrels, I know Quickloads doesn't model Barnes X bullets, but would there be a way to fudge it to see what kind of loads might work with their 200gr XPB bullets? It'd be a 2.2" OAL with .375" in the case.

I'm thinking a lighter bullet plus higher velocity might equal a longer reach before it starts to really drop off. A 200gr bullet that starts out fatter than most expanded .30 cal bullets is going to pack quite a whollop at 200yrds if you can get it there accurately.

+1

I think that the barns bullet will also be good at terminal ballistics. Even if the bullet can not take the force of impact and looses all of its petals at those velocities It will still have a solid projectile to continue. I talked to a guy at barns and he said that if it looses all 4 petals that is only 25% of the weight. 200gr - 25% = 150gr

[ar15barrels]

I know Quickloads doesn't model Barnes X bullets, but would there be a way to fudge it to see what kind of loads might work with their 200gr XPB bullets?

No.

[Slash2]

No.

How about a Hornady .452 45 CAL 200 GR SWC?

I'm just wondering what kind of velocity a lighter bullet would have while staying within the safe pressure ranges that you've been advocating all along,

or have I worn my welcome out by constantly asking for free info?

/2

[ar15barrels]

How about a Hornady .452 45 CAL 200 GR SWC?

I don't think you should run a cast bullet this hard without a gas check, but here's the Quickload pass...

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 200, Hornady SWC 12108
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.000 inch or 50.80 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch or 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 37500 psi, or 258 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

45 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 296                      99.5     44.4     2.88    2475    91.2    37500    6292   0.846  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H110                        97.8     43.5     2.82    2386    91.9    37500    5610   0.854  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Enforcer                    87.3     37.4     2.42    2348    97.6    37500    4988   0.856  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant 2400                        88.4     34.6     2.24    2335    96.7    37500    4906   0.856  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate Solo 4100                  90.0     38.9     2.52    2314    94.4    37500    4902   0.858  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N110                    105.0     37.3     2.42    2309    96.5    34141    5006   0.879  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate XMR 5744                   96.6     39.1     2.53    2278    82.2    37500    5001   0.858  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BLUE DOT                    94.7     30.6     1.98    2273    99.8    37500    4302   0.860  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N105                     89.3     29.7     1.92    2263   100.0    37500    3827   0.862  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.1680                   104.4     46.6     3.02    2258    75.7    37500    4989   0.859  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4227                      105.0     39.5     2.56    2194    85.1    31814    4799   0.909
IMR 4227                           105.0     39.5     2.56    2148    81.3    31257    4574   0.923

[Slash2]

I don't think you should run a cast bullet this hard without a gas check, but here's the Quickload pass...

/code]

I'm not actually considering using that bullet, I just wanted to know what a 200gr bullet would do. Now that I have some ball park velocities, I can plug the numbers into the Hornady Ballistics Calculator and get an idea what the Barnes X 200gr bullet will do.

According to the calculator, a 200gr Barnes X traveling @ 2400fps will stay within 2.5" of the line of sight out to 200yds if you zero it at 175yds. Now I've got a relatively flat shooting round out to 200yds. Good enough for pigs.

Thanks

[Wildcatter]

Been out of town again on bussiness and I see you guys are progressing nicely. Staying conservative with the pressures does have its rewards, as long as everything functions, then great.

I'd just like to remind you all, that the door here, has been opened and much greater performance can be had safely, as you’ve already demonstrated, if you do your job correctly, go slowly, with safety your personal prime directive. Just as in the 30-06, 300-500fps more speed can be safely achieved over the old factory standards, equaling the 300 magnums, so to, the 450 Bushmaster has not publically been fully utilized to its safe maximum potential. I have been purposely vague here as too the real safe upper limits. There are many Nay-Sayers and you guys are independently going to verify the 450b’s incredible performance and lying to rest the Anti-Hype Bias.

One question that has been asked about the small rifle primers, among the correct answers I have read here, the reason was an accuracy thing. The bench rest guys love them and you gentlemen have seen only part of the accuracy potential, great that it is so far. Yes, you can use pistol hollow point bullets and at these speeds they make the perfect home defense bullets (and very cheap too, compared to some of the SX style bullets), they won’t reliably penetrate a house interior wall and will absolutely vaporize small varmints, totally destructing the bullet, but this is not a varmint weapon, unless you’re Slash and can shoot a million rounds in a day (wink).

One other thing, with the Barnes Pointed bullets (200gr & 275gr), as with the FTX bullets, might be a little tough with the 200's but keep the OAL's as long as possible, it is no problem holding an OAL of 2.250" with the 250-275-300's and you should do so, good luck and good shooting...t

[mdbrownell]

I have been reloading the 450B for a couple of months now and I have my best grouping using H110 27Gr., Rem. 71/2 small rifle primer and Hornady 250gr HP/XTP (.452) . I have the bullet seated in the grove at 2.018" O.A.L.
They are grouping at .5" at 100yds. from a bench and are moving at 2120-2125 fps.

I had my dies made by CH Tool & Die and work great. I also have a set of Hornady dies but the group veries some time the groups are good and the next they are bad .75-2". I belive it being cause by the design of the die. It has that floating bullet seater and crimper thing which does not give the same resualts for each round. I have been playing with the crimp on the Hornady dies but still not impressed.

My CH Tool & Die dies are consistantly great .5" all day long. I also have modified my barrel a bit. I removed the comp and cut off the the threaded end to my it leagel in NY. I 90 degreed the barrel end and put a 45 degree crown on. I can say enough about how accurate these 450's are Im impressed. I purchased a second one just to see if its a fluke but it also holds .5" group.Cool!