Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Siringo]

I would think that you would fill your gas tube full of gooey lube.

[Wildcatter]

I would think that you would fill your gas tube full of gooey lube.

Carefully

[ar15barrels]

Carefully

[Siringo]

Wildcatter -- thanks for the info. I save shot gas guns a lot and have always been warned about shooting cast bullets. However, I have not played with this in an AR style. Maybe some of these very large metplat (?) hard cast bullets would be the ticket for short range hunting.

[Wildcatter]

Wildcatter -- thanks for the info. I save shot gas guns a lot and have always been warned about shooting cast bullets. However, I have not played with this in an AR style. Maybe some of these very large metplat (?) hard cast bullets would be the ticket for short range hunting.

[Siringo]

I reside in MN and hunt in the northern part of the state. I have used a 45-70 for 20 years or so. My shots have been as close as 10 feet and as far away as 200 yards. I used to hot rod the 45-70 but came to the conclusion that a 400 gr. bullet at 1200 fps works just fine. My interest in the 450 bushmaster was to give me a relatively flat shooting big bore out to 200 yards, even though my shots are more likely to be 50 yards or shorter. I understand what you are saying though. I shoot long range BP often and yes, just give me the range and I can hit it.

[Wildcatter]

I reside in MN and hunt in the northern part of the state. I have used a 45-70 for 20 years or so. My shots have been as close as 10 feet and as far away as 200 yards. I used to hot rod the 45-70 but came to the conclusion that a 400 gr. bullet at 1200 fps works just fine. My interest in the 450 bushmaster was to give me a relatively flat shooting big bore out to 200 yards, even though my shots are more likely to be 50 yards or shorter. I understand what you are saying though. I shoot long range BP often and yes, just give me the range and I can hit it.

[Wildcatter]

Talked to Barnes today and there is some mild talking there about a .458 in their Varmint Grenade and a TSX, also in .458. This is all good news, although they weren’t too sure if this was really going to happen, something about market viability. It’s about time the .458 came out of the closet. We have had Barnes TSX bullets for the .4515 for some time now and for blowing up Varmints, any of the 4515 hollow point bullets will totally self destruct, into virtual sand, even after it hits thin skinned ground squirrels, and all this at a cost, a mere small percentage of the Barnes VG, not to bad mouth them at all, because they’d be very accurate and have many great applications, I’ll use them, that’s for dog-gone sure. Hope this happens.

[Siringo]

My original bullet for the .458 was the 350 gr. Hornaday at 1900 fps. I can't say for sure about the expansion, but the exit wounds were about one inch. I switched to the 405 gr. Remington and slowed them down and the exit hole was somewhat larger. But that bullet had a signicant flat point which may have contributed to the lethality.

I just picked up some 250 gr. barnes bullets (the ones with the blue tip). However, because the weight to length ratio is greater than with lead bullets, I am not so sure they can be driven faster because the powder capacity has been reduced. Do you have any experience with these?

[Wildcatter]

My original bullet for the .458 was the 350 gr. Hornaday at 1900 fps. I can't say for sure about the expansion, but the exit wounds were about one inch. I switched to the 405 gr. Remington and slowed them down and the exit hole was somewhat larger. But that bullet had a signicant flat point which may have contributed to the lethality.

I just picked up some 250 gr. barnes bullets (the ones with the blue tip). However, because the weight to length ratio is greater than with lead bullets, I am not so sure they can be driven faster because the powder capacity has been reduced. Do you have any experience with these?

I do not, but let's see what we can do here. If you keep the OAL at 2.250" how far into the case does the bullet go? I'm not familiar with that bullet, other than I've seen them. What is their intended purpose and at what speeds do they perform and what will happen to the bullet at say 2500fps+? If rapid expansion (maybe blowing off the pedals), with a gapping initial wound canal, followed by deep penetration of the left over solid portion is experienced, then that bullet might be a real winner? Is that a pointed bullet and what is it's BC? It may take a call to Barnes (800-574-9200) to get all of that info.

[Slash2]

I do not, but let's see what we can do here. If you keep the OAL at 2.250" how far into the case does the bullet go? I'm not familiar with that bullet, other than I've seen them. What is their intended purpose and at what speeds do they perform and what will happen to the bullet at say 2500fps+? If rapid expansion (maybe blowing off the pedals), with a gapping initial wound canal, followed by deep penetration of the left over solid portion is experienced, then that bullet might be a real winner? Is that a pointed bullet and what is it's BC? It may take a call to Barnes (800-574-9200) to get all of that info.

I think these are the ones he's referring to:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/muzzleloader/spit-fire-tmz/

[Siringo]

I do not, but let's see what we can do here. If you keep the OAL at 2.250" how far into the case does the bullet go? I'm not familiar with that bullet, other than I've seen them. What is their intended purpose and at what speeds do they perform and what will happen to the bullet at say 2500fps+? If rapid expansion (maybe blowing off the pedals), with a gapping initial wound canal, followed by deep penetration of the left over solid portion is experienced, then that bullet might be a real winner? Is that a pointed bullet and what is it's BC? It may take a call to Barnes (800-574-9200) to get all of that info.

Yes, that is the correct bullet. Seated to 2.250 inches, the bullet is approximately 1.13 inches long. The bullet is seated into the case .58 inches. The bullet is a boatail and has approximately .4 inches of full diameter bearing surface. When seated, it is right or a little past the portion of the bullet that begins to taper. These would be used for deer hunting. Acccording to the literature, the bullet is designed for the speeds we are taling about.

[Wildcatter]

Yep, .58" is quite deep and you'll want to back off of the powder, bringing it slowly until the primers tell you to stop. Single load them into your weapon, with the magazine inserted, so you can see if the bolt stays open after you shoot. It sounds like the case mouth is over the ojive at the 2.250" OAL, is that correct? This bullet is designed for magnum muzzle loader velocities, which are in the 2000fps+ area. Are you able to buy box lots of this bullet or do you have to buy them in smaller blister-packs, like the Hornady SST's?

[Siringo]

Yep, .58" is quite deep and you'll want to back off of the powder, bringing it slowly until the primers tell you to stop. Single load them into your weapon, with the magazine inserted, so you can see if the bolt stays open after you shoot. It sounds like the case mouth is over the ojive at the 2.250" OAL, is that correct? This bullet is designed for magnum muzzle loader velocities, which are in the 2000fps+ area. Are you able to buy box lots of this bullet or do you have to buy them in smaller blister-packs, like the Hornady SST's?

Yes, the case mouth is over the ojive. I had purchased the bullets in a blister pack. For the heck of it, I pulled the blue plastic tip from the end of the bullet and that shortened the bullet by .22", leaving a hollow point of approximately .225" in diamter. I seated this bullet in the case to an OAL of 2.250" They do chamber and the bullet is in the case about the same depth as the Hornady 240 XTp/Mag. Also, it appears that the bearing surface of the barnes bullet is the same as the 240 gr. I might be better off using the MZ's instead, but I need to get some to make the measurements.

[Wildcatter]

Yes, the case mouth is over the ojive. I had purchased the bullets in a blister pack. For the heck of it, I pulled the blue plastic tip from the end of the bullet and that shortened the bullet by .22", leaving a hollow point of approximately .225" in diamter. I seated this bullet in the case to an OAL of 2.250" They do chamber and the bullet is in the case about the same depth as the Hornady 240 XTp/Mag. Also, it appears that the bearing surface of the barnes bullet is the same as the 240 gr. I might be better off using the MZ's instead, but I need to get some to make the measurements.

Taking the tip off is a great tip. Now when you seat them to the 2.250", how far into the case are they? It might have been ok to crimp over the ojive, I've done it. The only real problem is if there is a large enough void at the bullet/case mouth junction to pick up junk. The taper crimp would not normaly have over crimped. If you'd only have been only slightly over the ojive, you'd proably have not had any problems, as long as the head-space could be maintained, then maybe. I've shot 308 reloads many times in the AR. To make them fit the magazine the bullet must be seated well deep into the case and at 2.250" OAL, the crimp was way out over the ojive. This was done with perfect success. But with the 450b head-space is another problem to ponder, if one were to try this trick with that Barnes bullet. Of course a dangerous situation could develop if you did try to do this, I'm only trying to expand the thinking here and to examine the possibilities.