FFL

[Ron-Solo]

The gun is stolen by an FFL...the local LE isn't good enough, you are beyond that now.

Diesel,

It is NOT a theft! The Riverside FFL is not saying he doesn't have the gun anymore, he is saying he can't ship it. (yes, some underling said it had been shipped, which was not true, but that doesn't mean it is stolen) I have been in LE for 32 years. Based on what has been posted, the legal elements of a theft are not present.

It is a CIVIL matter that would need to be settled in small claims court. There may or may not be administrative violations by the FFL thru DOJ or BATF, but as long as he is holding to the line that he has not received the information he needs to legally ship the gun, he is on solid ground. If the OP's receiveing FFL isn't doing things right, he's going to have difficulty.

The OP probably knows that, which is why he hasn't mentioned the FFL.

On another note, I live in the Inland Empire and if the OP wishes to PM me, I would be happy to see what I could do to help.

[joefreas]

I had a similar situation and one call to CA DOJ had my gun back in my town in 2 weeks. I picked it up at the local police station. It felt kinda wierd having them slide my handgun to me through the dish in the bullet proof glass.

[Cokebottle]

Just my two cents....It sounds like Centerfire to me. They have that little office in front that gets stuff "locked" in it all the time. JW only has two people working there. The owner and his wife. The OP mentioned too many people for it to be JW.

It may sound like Centerfire, but.....

And it's not Centerfire or JW. Or Turners.

Apparently not.

[Cokebottle]

just curious OP, what gun is it? if the price is right, i'll buy it.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=251356

[tenpercentfirearms]

I am making zero excuses for this deadbeat FFL (again, assuming all is transpiring as described). Clearly they are doing bad business and once the OP gets his firearm back, he needs to let everyone know who it is.

At this point, the OP might want his pistol back and be done with it. He might write all of this off as a learning lesson.

Or he might want to go for the principal of the matter. I respect his decision either way and am just giving him options and going over possible defenses the FFL might try and give.

Either way, keep us updated on how it goes and good luck.

[Mad Jax]

jdmtype1, haven't heard from you in a while

[galekowitz]

The local PD needs to be contacted and verify if the pistol is still on site.

[Ron-Solo]

The local PD needs to be contacted and verify if the pistol is still on site.

That's not how it works in the real world. Local PD would need the FFL's consent, or a warrant, and there's certainly not enough for that. DOJ or BATF could inspect the inventory based on the fact they issue a license to the FFL.

At this point, it is NOT a theft, it is a civil matter.

[galekowitz]

Well I know the lengths I have gone to not take a report. I would go there and tell them he is wanting to file a stolen firearm report. I would find out from the shop if the pistol is still there. If it was I would tell him to return it that day. I would file an informational report about three paragraphs long. I would call the RP and tell him if the pistol was there or not. Granted it is a civil matter at this time. But if the pistol is not accounted for we have a different matter. If the FFL cannot come up with it it's an embezzlement case. Thats an easy warrant to write. I'm sure the FFL doesn't want to go that route.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Well I know the lengths I have gone to not take a report. I would go there and tell them he is wanting to file a stolen firearm report. I would find out from the shop if the pistol is still there. If it was I would tell him to return it that day. I would file an informational report about three paragraphs long. I would call the RP and tell him if the pistol was there or not. Granted it is a civil matter at this time. But if the pistol is not accounted for we have a different matter. If the FFL cannot come up with it it's an embezzlement case. Thats an easy warrant to write. I'm sure the FFL doesn't want to go that route.

This is what I am saying. If you file a stolen gun report, the local police can't just ignore that. So they head down to ask what is going on. When the cops show up and the FFL sees the guy wants his gun back, that might make it happen.

If the FFL is wanting to play hardball, he uses the excuses I mentioned. Odds are he isn't trying to steal the gun, he is just a bad FFL.

[stitchnicklas]

final option while rather costly would be to come down to riverside to retrieve the gun...
bring a 01 ffl with you so you can take the gun and go....

[dieselpower]

I'll say it again...where there is smoke, there is fire...

wait a few months....

[Matt@EntrepriseArms]

Its a civil matter, plain and simple. You can try to turn it into a criminal matter, but good luck with that. Local law enforcement won't do anything other than make a phone call at the most.

The only thing that will make the dealer sit up and take notice is if you have a lawyer send a letter to him outlining the complaint and the legal actions you are going to take if he doesn't return your property.

On a personal note, I once had a person tell me once that he was going to report me to the "CBI," ie. the "California Bureau of Investigation." Lol, the guy has been watching that show the "Mentalist" too much, and didn't realize that its a ficticious agency.

[jdmtype1]

Still here, just waiting for everyone to get a chance to speak and for me to absorb this information.

Just called called Keith Krolczyk in Riverside Field office. They say "IT'S NOT THE ATF'S PROBLEM" based on the story that i told them (as well as CGN). They said that it's a CIVIL matter, and that i would have to work something out with the FFL!!!(really!?!?!)

Just called Riverside Police whom pointed me to the FBI. (Not surprised, didn't call them)

Approaching the 3 month mark, and still no handgun. Words are unable to describe my current state. I feel so cheated from both the Federal government and local businessmen. All i wanted was to make a few bucks and sell this firearm to pay off my student loans and to make rent. But now i find that there are stupid American businessmen (probably with no business degree or no brain) trying to rip law abiding citizens off.

To the residents of Riverside whom are concerned about where to buy their next firearm, I will be posting the names and other related information before the end of this months. I know many are eagerly waiting for this information, and trust me, i want this information out too, but as few has stated, i don't want any anonymous tip offs for the fear that someone may be working with the bad FFL that can spoil the element of surprise. I going to give one more call, if i get the same crap from him "it's sent, it's not sent, call back" I will release every information i have on the individual and their establishment.

Hypothetically, let say the FFL tells me to get lost, and there is NO way to get my handgun back (worst case scenario), can i get the FLAKER to compensate me fully for the cost of shipping and the cost of a lost handgun? I know his DIME.

Come to think about, what if i had been setup this whole time. FLAKER may be working for the FFL or worked out some kind of agreement. I know for sure the FLAKER lives about 23.2 miles from the FFL. That could be possible, no?

On another note, those who have state that you are able to pull LEGAL ropes, i encourage you to PM me as did a few others. I'm just hoping that this information is kept between you and I for the time being until i reach a conclusion. I honestly just want my handgun back.

[Ogolden1]

On a personal note, I once had a person tell me once that he was going to report me to the "CBI," ie. the "California Bureau of Investigation."

Lol, the guy has been watching that show the "Mentalist" too much, and didn't realize that its a ficticious agency.

Now, that's FUNNY!