FFL

[Matt@EntrepriseArms]

Still here, just waiting for everyone to get a chance to speak and for me to absorb this information.

Just called called Keith Krolczyk in Riverside Field office. They say "IT'S NOT THE ATF'S PROBLEM" based on the story that i told them (as well as CGN). They said that it's a CIVIL matter, and that i would have to work something out with the FFL!!!(really!?!?!)

Just called Riverside Police whom pointed me to the FBI. (Not surprised, didn't call them)

Approaching the 3 month mark, and still no handgun. Words are unable to describe my current state. I feel so cheated from both the Federal government and local businessmen. All i wanted was to make a few bucks and sell this firearm to pay off my student loans and to make rent. But now i find that there are stupid American businessmen (probably with no business degree or no brain) trying to rip law abiding citizens off.

To the residents of Riverside whom are concerned about where to buy their next firearm, I will be posting the names and other related information before the end of this months. I know many are eagerly waiting for this information, and trust me, i want this information out too, but as few has stated, i don't want any anonymous tip offs for the fear that someone may be working with the bad FFL that can spoil the element of surprise. I going to give one more call, if i get the same crap from him "it's sent, it's not sent, call back" I will release every information i have on the individual and their establishment.

Hypothetically, let say the FFL tells me to get lost, and there is NO way to get my handgun back (worst case scenario), can i get the FLAKER to compensate me fully for the cost of shipping and the cost of a lost handgun? I know his DIME.

Come to think about, what if i had been setup this whole time. FLAKER may be working for the FFL or worked out some kind of agreement. I know for sure the FLAKER lives about 23.2 miles from the FFL. That could be possible, no?

On another note, those who have state that you are able to pull LEGAL ropes, i encourage you to PM me as did a few others. I'm just hoping that this information is kept between you and I for the time being until i reach a conclusion. I honestly just want my handgun back.

Read my post above, and Tenpercent's posts too. Listen to the people on here who are dealers and not just some guy giving you his $.02 but really doesn't know what they are talking about.

Get a lawyer, and have them send a letter. If that doesn't work, you will have to sue them in civil court.

[dieselpower]

Come to think about, what if i had been setup this whole time. FLAKER may be working for the FFL or worked out some kind of agreement. I know for sure the FLAKER lives about 23.2 miles from the FFL. That could be possible, no?

I mentioned that to you I thought. You should keep after this on your own and just hope the "its a civil matter" is just a way to keep you out of the case, but they are in fact investigating this FFL.

As I said before, I tell people stuff like this also when I don't want them butting into the case. The last thing you want is a witness going back to your suspect and trying to use the criminal case as a wedge to get their property back.

If they really believe this is a civil matter, they are the typical lazy public servant. The "donut eating cop". I have met several and time on the job doesn't matter. I have practically had to hold a 20yr detectives hand and walk him down a case...the Lakers were playing and he was worried our meeting was going to interfere with that. It turned into one of the largest bust in his career..and he never even understood how he caught them. He made a good talking head on the 11 O'Clock News though.

Sorry to the people here and Mr. Krolczyk, but if you actually believe this is a civil matter you couldn't investigate your way out of a paper bag.

There was a guy on E-bay ripping people off for over $500,000 a year and guess how he did it. Thats right, everyone that went to the police got the "its a civil matter" lazy slob. After one person did get to a good LEO, they eventually found out this guy had also murdered someone. It was shown on America's most wanted. He got away with ripping off hundreds of people a year because..."its a civil matter".

Bernie Madoff stole BILLIONS from people. This was AFTER "its a civil matter" investigators let him go. In his confession he even states he counted on the incompetence in these kinds of investigators to continue his scam. It was only after one investigator actually did their job, (even after being told to back off) did they figure out what was going on. They then talked to his son who confirmed the investigators were correct. If it was not for this one investigator......

Lazy investigators have too much on their plate and can't be bothered with one more case. They simply just make up excuses why..."its a civil matter" to make themselves feel better about allowing a criminal to get away with a crime. Just like the Parole Officer who ignored a child living in the back yard of a child molesters home...he couldn't care less...its a housing matter and nothing to do with him...

I have said this before on this website, "There is a difference between 30+ years of experience and 30+ years at a job."...just waiting for that retirement check huh.

Cher up man. Just keep at it, you will get your firearm or the cash for it. I hope the guy gets busted too.

[Ron-Solo]

If they really believe this is a civil matter, they are the typical lazy public servant. The "donut eating cop". I have met several and time on the job doesn't matter.

Now you are on the verge of being offensive. Your knowledge of the law is not what you think it is.

[kermit315]

Now you are on the verge of being offensive. Your knowledge of the law is not what you think it is.

please post the definition of theft.

[Mad Jax]

Hope you are reunited with your firearm before Christmas, you are a very patient man and I don't believe I could remain this cool throughout this process like you have. I will be awaiting your post of the vendors name after you have resolved this issue...Good Luck!

[stitchnicklas]

like i said,find a friendly ffl i your home area,get in a car,drive down here and get your gun.... it is a 6.75hr drive one way.

or find a local ffl in riverside to take possession of your gun and ship it to your ffl..

[DC45]

Why not have a local CGN'er walk in, tell them that they are buying the gun from you (the original owner), and that they want to inspect it first - that'll tell if it's on the property.
You'll have to find a volunteer, PM him/her with your real name and the Riverside FFL's name.
Heck, that "volunteer" may actually want that gun and buy it on the spot!

[stitchnicklas]

also put your gun up for sale down here and force the ffl in to a transfer...he would have no right to refuse the sell if the buyer is legit,if he refuses to process the sale then he is up to no good...

cut the price by 100 bucks and see what happens..(100 buck=gas for round trip drive)

i can not afford the gun ,so i am not trying top jip you

[stitchnicklas]

Why not have a local CGN'er walk in, tell them that they are buying the gun from you (the original owner), and that they want to inspect it first - that'll tell if it's on the property.
You'll have to find a volunteer, PM him/her with your real name and the Riverside FFL's name.
Heck, that "volunteer" may actually want that gun and buy it on the spot!

i hereby volunteer to do the check for you...

[bollero]

post the name of the FFL

[stitchnicklas]

post the name of the FFL

he will...

after a solution is found..

he is watching his p's & q's...

[tenpercentfirearms]

I think trying to sell it to a Calgunner is now your best possible bet. The FFL has $30 of your dollars that should apply to the transfer fee. Sell it to a Calgunner for a bit cheaper and have them go get it.

Otherwise, get a lawyer.

Sure dieselpower has his fantasy that the FFL is about to be indicted for illegal arms trade or some such nonsense, but that doesn't mean a damn thing to the OP. He just wants his gun back and the time it takes to get it back once the FFL supposedly gets shut down by a massive multi-state task force that has nothing better to do than go investigate "miscommunication" between two people could approach forever.

The other thing to do is stop calling people. File a report! File a local police report for stolen property. As I predicted, making phone calls is only going to get you the passing of the buck. They can't blow off your report and when a cop has to go down there and ask, the FFL might realize they might want to take care of this.

Another option is out the mothers and have every Calgunner go in there and ask if the shop if they have shipped the gun back. That might get old real quick for the dealer. Especially if such Calgunners were to say, "Really? Not yet? Hey everyone in the store, these guys steal guns! No way am I trusting them for anything. Everyone have a nice day." as you walk out the door.

Basically, it is time to play some hardball.

[cgseanp1]

at least say who the FLAKER guy was. That shouldn't hurt anything!

[dieselpower]

I think trying to sell it to a Calgunner is now your best possible bet. The FFL has $30 of your dollars that should apply to the transfer fee. Sell it to a Calgunner for a bit cheaper and have them go get it. Thats if the FFL even acknowledges he received the $30...Since he is allowed under your law to make up stories he can just saw he lost the $30 and needs $100 more to do the PPT...
Otherwise, get a lawyer. < because the police are too busy to investigate a possible crime..lawyers, Businesses and Police love this logic. Lawyer make money, business can get away with THEFT and police can watch TV, beat up minorities and eat donuts with little or no effort.

Sure dieselpower has his fantasy that the FFL is about to be indicted for illegal arms trade or some such nonsense, but that doesn't mean a damn thing to the OP. He just wants his gun back and the time it takes to get it back once the FFL supposedly gets shut down by a massive multi-state task force that has nothing better to do than go investigate "miscommunication" between two people could approach forever. No, I just want some flat-foot to put the donut down and go INVESTIGATE whats happening in a real manor. I will guarantee if I was LEO in Riverside, and that shop was in my jurisdiction, the handgun would already be in the hands of the owner. I would then start looking at ALL the FFLs transactions to determine how many other people he did this with, how many other violations I could find. I am a professional Investigator. I understand where there is smoke there is fire...this isn't the first picnic this FFL has gone to

The other thing to do is stop calling people. File a report! ...but but but its a civil matter... File a local police report for stolen property. As I predicted, making phone calls is only going to get you the passing of the buck. because the fresh donuts are more important then investigating a possible crime.They can't blow off your report and when a cop has to go down there and ask, the FFL might realize they might want to take care of this. As with most LEA, you have to HOPE and PRAY you get a real LEO...most of the time you get.."its a civil matter" cop. Its so normal, you have a business man and a 32year LE veteran confirming a phone call is not going to work...and you confirmed them correct, LE will not lift a fat donut filled finger unless you FORCE them...think about it.

Another option is out the mothers and have every Calgunner go in there and ask if the shop if they have shipped the gun back. That might get old real quick for the dealer. Especially if such Calgunners were to say, "Really? Not yet? Hey everyone in the store, these guys steal guns! No way am I trusting them for anything. Everyone have a nice day." as you walk out the door.

Basically, it is time to play some hardball. because asking for LEA support interrupts nap-time at the station...its a civil matter...

Paris Hilton is found with cocaine in her pants pocket...her reply to this, "these aren't my pants". Do we accept this as valid and not investigate or arrest?

A guy smashes into a parked Police car injuring the officer. He blows a 1.1 His excuse, "seconds after the accident I chugged a bottle of vodka to ease my pain...I really wasn't driving drunk, I am just drunk now." Do we accept this? Do we not expect LEO to arrest? Would it be ok if the officer did accept this and just ticket the driver?

Then why do you accept YOUR assumed and imagined EXCUSE in this situation??????????????

No one has EVEN talked to the FFL yet you IN YOUR MIND make up a plausible story allowing this to be a civil matter...

Paris Hilton caught with drugs...your OFFICIAL reply and YOUR OFFICIAL action..."Those were not her pants...its a civil matter"...without her even speaking a word.

I'm sorry that is offensive to me Ron. When we as a community allow LEO to make excuses for suspects without even talking to them.

Do I understand the law Ron? Based on what you have said, I can investigate circles around you with my limited understanding of the law...I don't make up phantom excuses for a possible crime before talking to both parties...you have NO IDEA what will come out of that FFL's mouth when you question him...yet "its a civil matter" and "I don't understand the law".

IMHO, Thats twice you have shown a lack of fore-thought and a propensity to do nothing as a policy of Office [on these forums]. I can not remember what our last argument was about, but its seems to me it was just like this.

[robcoe]

Approaching the 3 month mark, and still no handgun.

At this point I would file a report with the local police that the gun is stolen(Example you believe they sold it under the table to someone), not just that they are not returning it. A 1/4 of a year is way past reasonable.

It might cost a couple of bucks but you might also want to consider, if they keep up the "we dont have the FFL's info" line, sending them a registered(certified?, something where someone there has to sign for the letter) letter with your FFL's info and a copy of the cashed check you sent them for the shipping(you can usually get these from your bank), then after you get conformation it arrived call them again, if they give you the same run around then I would be 90% sure they sold the gun and are just hoping you go away.