CA DROS Delay

[Creative300]

Hence her BIG LIE. She changed the DOJ-FAQ page by adding the same last phrase as is on your letter. Inferring a NON EXISTANT "discretion" on FFLs.

Which just as planned, created a crap storm of idiot FFLs lacking the language skills to actually read the law. So they believed her.

Because her DOJ peeps in the field were also giving false implications to FFLs. That if they released on undetermined. And the buyer later committed a crime with the gun. That the FFL "could possibly" be sued and found liable for the crime in civil court.

Which is another duplicitous LIE. FFL dealers are covered by the PLCAA.

Just wondering if there were any actual cases where FFLs were sued for releasing a firearm on undetermined status that was later used in a crime?

[tsmithson]

[LMan57]

I wonder if all the delays are for handguns or long guns, I was called on day 6 that it has been delayed. I purchased a rifle and a pistol last year and have purchased many over the years without any issues.

[Deelayed]

I would think that if a list of all the shops that released on undetermined posted that would be giving the powers that be a list of all the shops that can be harassed and potentially put out of business. I also wonder if they have a way to figure out through sales if a shop releases on undetermined because they have a pre determined rate of a delay responses therefore being able to single out and harass certain shops. Which can be done with computers.. so it really takes no brain activity from the ones in question .

[The Gleam]

I would think that if a list of all the shops that released on undetermined posted that would be giving the powers that be a list of all the shops that can be harassed and potentially put out of business. I also wonder if they have a way to figure out through sales if a shop releases on undetermined because they have a pre determined rate of a delay responses therefore being able to single out and harass certain shops. Which can be done with computers.. so it really takes no brain activity from the ones in question .

Highly unlikely, because it's legal to release on undetermined and it does not create an affront to any party involved, whether that's the dealer, the DOJ, or the buyer.

Releasing on undetermined in these erroneous DOJ 'delay/undetetmined' out of default instigated by their laziness or simply dismissiveness - benefits all involved.

It does NOT put liability on the dealer as the FUD engine is trying to imply, it takes an unfinished work-order off the desk of whomever at the DOJ never felt compelled to 'getting around to it' for manual review within 30-days in the first place, and the buyer who is NOT considered a prohibited person NOR IS UNDETERMINED A DENIAL gets his gun and his civil rights are not violated.

The DOJ doesn't care in that regard, where legal processes are followed - even if Bonta's office is clearly showing animosity toward gun owners and gun dealers.

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[Deelayed]

Highly unlikely, because it's legal to release on undetermined and it does not create an affront to any party involved, whether that's the dealer, the DOJ, or the buyer.

Releasing on undetermined in these erroneous DOJ 'delay/undetetmined' out of default instigated by their laziness or simply dismissiveness - benefits all involved.

It does NOT put liability on the dealer as the FUD engine is trying to imply, it takes an unfinished work-order off the desk of whomever at the DOJ never felt compelled to 'getting around to it' for manual review within 30-days in the first place, and the buyer who is NOT considered a prohibited person NOR IS UNDETERMINED A DENIAL gets his gun and his civil rights are not violated.

The DOJ doesn't care in that regard, where legal provesses are followed - even if Bonta's office is clearly showing animosity toward gun owners and gun dealers.

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Ok .Point taken .I guess with the new SCOTUS ruling we should expect even more and possibly longer delays .

[pacrat]

Just wondering if there were any actual cases where FFLs were sued for releasing a firearm on undetermined status that was later used in a crime?

EXACTLY NONE, that were ever found on any of the searchable court data bases. Or any published news outlets. Re "undetermined release".

There have been cases filed nationally naming FFLs as complacent in the crimes of third parties. All of which went EXACTLY NoWHERE. Because of the aforementioned PLCAA protections in place.

IMHO, all those were filed by GREEDY RELATIVES HOPING FOR DEEP POCKET PAYOUTS. To cash in on a family tragedy.

[pacrat]

I wonder if all the delays are for handguns or long guns, I was called on day 6 that it has been delayed. I purchased a rifle and a pistol last year and have purchased many over the years without any issues.

Both! Bonta just like Basura, and Kamaltoe before him don't discrimate. They hate all guns, and gun owners.

[Creative300]

EXACTLY NONE, that were ever found on any of the searchable court data bases. Or any published news outlets. Re "undetermined release".

There have been cases filed nationally naming FFLs as complacent in the crimes of third parties. All of which went EXACTLY NoWHERE. Because of the aforementioned PLCAA protections in place.

IMHO, all those were filed by GREEDY RELATIVES HOPING FOR DEEP POCKET PAYOUTS. To cash in on a family tragedy.

That's what I thought. I mean it says right there in the damn form letter everyone gets that FFL's may legally release the firearm as soon as a delay goes into undetermined status.

The fear of being sued that some FFL's seem to have is unfounded because it has never happened. If it did I'm sure it would have been all over the news and everyone would know about it by now. And even if it does happen the case has little to no chance of going to court much less winning.

I believe the state is lying 99% of the time whenever it goes to undetermined status because it has actually been DETERMINED in favor of releasing the firearm. The only reason why the state calls it UNDETERMINED is to try to scare the FFL into NOT releasing the firearm. It is their underhanded way of suppressing our 2A rights.

[pacrat]

The fear of being sued that some FFL's seem to have is unfounded because it has never happened. If it did I'm sure it would have been all over the news and everyone would know about it by now. And even if it does happen the case has little to no chance of going to court much less winning.

^^^Exactly^^^

FOR EIGHT YEARS, every time that anyone, usually a FFL that refuses to deliver on undetermined.

Tries to use that same lame excuse about third party civil suits. Or any non-existent repercussions from DOJ. I ask them to please CITE ANY CASE that supports their premise.

Best they have come up with in those EIGHT YEARS, is.

"Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't happen" ...

[Creative300]

^^^Exactly^^^

FOR EIGHT YEARS, every time that anyone, usually a FFL that refuses to deliver on undetermined.

Tries to use that same lame excuse about third party civil suits. Or any non-existent repercussions from DOJ. I ask them to please CITE ANY CASE that supports their premise.

Best they have come up with in those EIGHT YEARS, is.

"Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't happen" ...

There's just no arguing or reasoning with some people. Best we can do is avoid these FFLs in the future because they are just wasting our time and money. One FFL told me I should re-DROS and do a livescan if it goes to undetermined status after 30 days. Why in the world would I want to pay even more money to the state and endure another 30 days of torturous waiting that may still go undetermined a second time? When there are plenty of FFLs that will release after the first 30 days?

The state wants you to re-DROS so they can make more money from the fees. As if California wasn't enough of a fees and taxation hellhole.

[pacrat]

There's just no arguing or reasoning with some people. Best we can do is avoid these FFLs in the future because they are just wasting our time and money. One FFL told me I should re-DROS and do a livescan if it goes to undetermined status after 30 days. Why in the world would I want to pay even more money to the state and endure another 30 days of torturous waiting that may still go undetermined a second time? When there are plenty of FFLs that will release after the first 30 days?

The state wants you to re-DROS so they can make more money from the fees. As if California wasn't enough of a fees and taxation hellhole.

YES! The bolded is best case for law abiding 2A supporting citizens.

Alternative, which no one seems to want to do, no matter how much I suggest it. IS TO SUE THE BASTARDS!

Looking back at your posts, you've learned a lot about crooked FFLs and their "undetermined scams" in just 12 days.

[66nick]

I just got told by my local FFL that my 10 day wait was "delayed" and found this thread. I saw this comment, is that a phone number that I (a regular consumer/citizen) can call or does the FFL have to do it? I have bought two other long-guns in the past year or so (none anywhere near 30-days ago) so I don't see any reason why I went "delayed".

Any additional guidance would be great, I just want to bring the new toy home!

This is wrong. DOJ does send a letter of undetermined that includes a NICS number in order to release the gun to the undetermined dros. That NICS number is in fact ANOTHER background check. The problem is that DOJ sends those letters out so late that it does no good and past 30 days.

The dealer can issue upon undetermined if they want but also must call into DOJ to get that NICS number instead of waiting for a letter that doesn't show up for 3-4 weeks.

To back track, The CA DROS number is only good for 30 days. That DROS goes undetermined and in order to release that gun, needs another background check and they use NICS. If you get the number via phone right away, you can deliver the gun but it absolutely must have a NICS number to put it on the 4473 or it was an illegal transfer federally.

[LMan57]

Well, today is day 15 and no word from my FFL I guess I will hear something in a couple of weeks maybe sooner

[559BearDown]

Day 65 and counting.