CA DROS Delay

[smokycuh]

Got The Call Smoky!!!

"APPROVED"
with 5mn left to spare from the 30 day BS.

(Stage Stop Gun Shop & Indoor Range (209) 358-4867
Release ''UNDETERMINED'' if you have a Valid CA. CCW.)

Hella yeah congratulations!


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[smokycuh]

Anyone else dealing with DROS delays?

Hella yeah congratulations!


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[pzbike]

[smokycuh]

[Brian93436]

My "delayed" has now changed status to "undetermined" for a Glock originally DROS'd on 04/15/22. This comes on the heels of 4 "approved" purchases since Dec 2021, with no change in my eligibility.

Also have a M77 DROS'd on 05/07/22 in "delayed" status and suspect it will also go "undetermined" at some point.

Are there any gun rights groups collecting statistics on this CA. DOJ clerical tactic of gun control?

[The Gleam]

This is ridiculous

I actually got a hold of a live operator today and i asked them

1) what is going on with delays? She said we have high volume of apps now causing delays

2) why is my case delayed twice when i bought 5 guns this year with no issues? she said possibly due to “new guidelines” on how it is reviewed which has been causing undetermined and denials. (She would not disclose any more than that because she is not at liberty to say)

3) will a livescan help this delay? She said no because it only provides a copy of what they are looking at but will not specify what caused the delay
Only get livescan on a denial

In other words worthless information and no help
99.9% chance my case will be undetermined again

But might as well wait since i already paid DROS and lost that fee

Trash.

What has been trashed is one of your basic civil-rights.

No civil right should be delayed or even denied due to incompetence, 'volume', not enough staff to get around to it, not enough time to get around to it, I've got to take lunch, I've got to leave early to catch the bus, the server is slow today, I don't want to miss the Kardashians, or for any other asinine reasons.

Their inability to do their job that they unnecessarily created is not my problem, nor is it an excuse to deny a constitutional right - when otherwise, all legal requirements have been met by someone who is not a prohibited person.

I even detect a maliscious, biased, and purposefully cynical intent to propagate and promote these delays due to Bonta's blatant animosity toward gun owners and gun stores.

This answer from them, with its dismissive attitude of the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment, is a clear civil rights violation and their using these methods as the excuse for these delays being overt abuse of power through subterfuge.

This cannot be tolerated. It's pure use of bureacracy to oppress a civil right of the people, it's tyranny through obfuscation - call it what it is.

A class action lawsuit is needed.

An FOIA demand should be filed, an audit of their processes immediately established, and not another day should go by without their being required to fully disclose whatever those mythical "new guidelines" may be, as they may just be operational underground gun control tactics not allowed by law - even by the CA DOJ.

Every delay, every undetermined, every unfounded denial - especially without explanation - is on par with the same kind of tactics used in the past to deny basic civil-rights to minorities, certain religions, and women for various other civil rights violations, but in this case, discriminating against anyone that defines themself as one looking to express their 2nd Amendment right.

ENOUGH - CRPA and the NRA can't continue to sit on their hands over this issue.

I'm a long time member of both and I haven't seen one news-byte, comment, email, or article from either one on this issue. It's dissapointing, even insulting, for this to go ignored by them.

Everyone here, anyone that gives a damn, especially those with delays - should be calling and emailing the CRPA to ask:

"Have you seen this? Are you doing anything to act on it? Is there something you need me to do so you can?"

Utter nonsense, to do nothing, to say nothing. At least if the CRPA/NRA would advise it's being addressed but they can't divulge details right now, I'll subside and take them at their word.

You would never see any other civil rights group turn a blind eye and stay silent to such repugnant display by the DOJ to intentionally screw with and disregard peoples' freedoms and civil rights.

---

[smokycuh]

What has been trashed is one of your basic civil-rights.

No civil right should be delayed or even denied due to incompetence, 'volume', not enough staff to get around to it, not enough time to get around to it, I've got to take lunch, I've got to leave early to catch the bus, the server is slow today, I don't want to miss the Kardashians, or for any other asinine reasons.

Their inability to do their job that they unnecessarily created is not my problem, nor is it an excuse to deny a constitutional right - when otherwise, all legal requirements have been met by someone who is not a prohibited person.

I even detect a maliscious, biased, and purposefully cynical intent to propagate and promote these delays due to Bonta's blatant animosity toward gun owners and gun stores.

This answer from them, with its dismissive attitude of the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment, is a clear civil rights violation and their using these methods as the excuse for these delays being overt abuse of power through subterfuge.

This cannot be tolerated. It's pure use of bureacracy to oppress a civil right of the people, it's tyranny through obfuscation - call it what it is.

A class action lawsuit is needed.

An FOIA demand should be filed, an audit of their processes immediately established, and not another day should go by without their being required to fully disclose whatever those mythical "new guidelines" may be, as they may just be operational underground gun control tactics not allowed by law - even by the CA DOJ.

Every delay, every undetermined, every unfounded denial - especially without explanation - is on par with the same kind of tactics used in the past to deny basic civil-rights to minorities, certain religions, and women for various other civil rights violations, but in this case, discriminating against anyone that defines themself as one looking to express their 2nd Amendment right.

ENOUGH - CRPA and the NRA can't continue to sit on their hands over this issue.

I'm a long time member of both and I haven't seen one news-byte, comment, email, or article from either one on this issue. It's dissapointing, even insulting, for this to go ignored by them.

Everyone here, anyone that gives a damn, especially those with delays - should be calling and emailing the CRPA to ask:

"Have you seen this? Are you doing anything to act on it? Is there something you need me to do so you can?"

Utter nonsense, to do nothing, to say nothing. At least if the CRPA/NRA would advise it's being addressed but they can't divulge details right now, I'll subside and take them at their word.

You would never see any other civil rights group turn a blind eye and stay silent to such repugnant display by the DOJ to intentionally screw with and disregard peoples' freedoms and civil rights.

---

I just emailed CRPA about this with a link to this thread
Lets see what happens


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[MCubeiro]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

[smokycuh]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

Thank you i greatly appreciate this!
I believe this will help our gun community


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[foothillman]

^^^
The only problem I see/read is that some FFL say to just DROS again and it will most likely be approved.

If this is the case than why?
CADOJ takes 40 days to figure out you are not prohibited?
I thought newer faster computers/internet was going to speed things up.
I really think they just check what they can within the first 10 days.
If they have some going on 11 days the delay button is pushed.
If time permits they go back and actually run a background check.
If time does not permit then 30 days it becomes undetermined.

The real fix is to force CADOJ to send out a letter.
What they found that caused the delay.
Not that stupid form letter that everyone gets.

We have no idea what can trigger a delay.
If the CADOJ "New Guidelines" than why not publish them?

[smokycuh]

^^^
The only problem I see/read is that some FFL say to just DROS again and it will most likely be approved.

If this is the case than why?
CADOJ takes 40 days to figure out you are not prohibited?
I thought newer faster computers/internet was going to speed things up.
I really think they just check what they can within the first 10 days.
If they have some going on 11 days the delay button is pushed.
If time permits they go back and actually run a background check.
If time does not permit then 30 days it becomes undetermined.

The real fix is to force CADOJ to send out a letter.
What they found that caused the delay.
Not that stupid form letter that everyone gets.

We have no idea what can trigger a delay.
If the CADOJ "New Guidelines" than why not publish them?

[emoji817][emoji817][emoji817][emoji817][emoji817]


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[The Gleam]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

But that is not what is going on here.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to join this conversation, but really look over what is actually being conveyed here, and in more than a dozen areas peppered throughout Calguns, sharing even more anecdotes by dozens of separate others within each.

If you read any part of this thread, or any of the dozens of sudden reports by people without any background issues, and as also being advised by dealers, that the surge in undetermined and delays has jumped 10-fold or more in numbers, you'll see it's not the same scenario as you are suggesting seen from your association with client matters.

The increased frequency arising over delays and 'undetermined' status on various existing gun owners' DROS processes, where in many cases they have an active DROS that is NOT delayed or 'undetermined' from another FFL at the same time, is way out of limits of likelihood to these people being the example you are citing.

The sudden increase in delays and 'undetermined' are skyrocketing and the DOJ is candidly stating it's due to their system inefficiency, shortage of staff, new guidelines, and other dismissive fodder - a gamut of issues, not directly the cause or trait of the buyer, that should never be any reason to delay someone's right or be ambiguous about that right (i.e., this nonsensical 'undetermined' label).

I understand your point on delays where someone needs legal help because THEY are the issue, but that is WHY you're only hearing from THOSE people!

You're not hearing about these unfounded and unwarranted delays and 'undetermined' infringements because the people to whom this is happening do not have any prohibiting or legal trapping for an attorney to address or need for the same. There is nothing about them to work on.

And THAT is why a 2nd Amendment rights organization needs to look into this.

These are cut-and-dry civil rights violations by the DOJ solely because the amount of work, or the time they self-prescribed to an issue that didn't need obstruction in the first place, is inconveniencing them. So they log a delay, an undetermined - "Sorry, we just can't fit you and your miserable 2nd Amendment rights in right now."

As a member of the NRA since 1978 without fail, and a member of the CRPA since coming to CA in 1990, it's absolutely crucial this issue not go ignored and discounted, or misinterpreted as something else, the cause for delays being business as usual because of the buyers.

Much more is at work here - or should I say, NOT at work?

The problem-cases you have only heard about as clients that come to you to fix their personal issue is a separate track entirely.

In the 20+ years of Calguns, there has never been this recent level of delays/undetermined DOJ games being reported from buyers that have recently DROSed numerous guns in the past several months without such asinine infringement being donned on them.

Something is amiss, maybe even intentional.

----

[smokycuh]

But that is not what is going on here.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to join this conversation, but really look over what is actually being conveyed here, and in more than a dozen areas peppered throughout Calguns, sharing even more anecdotes by dozens of seprate others within each.

If you read any part of this thread, or any of the dozens of sudden reports by people without any background issues and as also being advised by dealers, that the surge in undetermined and delays has jumped 10-fold or more in numbers, you'll see it's not the same scenario as you are suggestion from your association with client matters.

The increased frequency arising over delays and 'undetermined' status on various existing gun owners' DROS processes, where in many cases they have an active DROS that is NOT delayed or 'undetermined' from another FFL at the same time, is way out of limits of likelihood to these people being the example you are citing.

The sudden increase in delays and 'undetermined' are skyrocketing and the DOJ is candidly stating it's due to their system inefficiency, shortage of staff, new guidelines, and other dismissive fodder - a gamut of issues, not directly the cause or trait of the buyer, that should never be any reason to delay someone's right or be ambiguous about that right (i.e., this nonsensical 'undetermined' label).

I understand your point on delays where someone needs legal help because THEY are the issue, but that is WHY you're only hearing from THOSE people!

You're not hearing about these unfounded and unwarranted delays and 'undetermined' infringements because the people to whom this is happening do not have any prohibiting or legal trapping for an attorney to address or need for the same. There is nothing about them to work on.

And THAT is why a 2nd Amendment rights organization needs to look into this.

These are cut-and-dry civil rights violations by the DOJ solely because the amount of work, or the time they self-prescribed to an issue that didn't need obstruction in the first place, is inconveniencing them. So they log a delay, an undetermined - "Sorry, we just can't fit you and your misersble 2nd Amendment rights in right now."

As a member of the NRA since 1978 without fail, and a member of the CRPA since coming to CA in 1990, it's absolutely crucial this issue not go ignored and discounted, or misinterpreted as something else, the cause for delays being business as usual because of the buyers.

Much more is at work here - or should I say, NOT at work?

The problem-cases you have only heard about as clients that come to you to fix their personal issue is a separate track entirely.

In the 20+ years of Calguns, there has never been this recent level of delays/undetermined DOJ games being reported from buyers that have recently DROSed numerous guns in the past several months without such asinine infringement being donned on them.

Something is amiss, maybe even intentional.

----

I agree 100% with this statement


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[Brian93436]

Just to be clear, I purchased 4 firearms between Dec 2021 and April 2022 (Turner's in SM). No delays, no issues.

The Glock I DROS'd in April was my first "delay", and then the status went "undetermined" a week or so ago (Turner's in SM). I had never heard of DROS "delay" or "undetermined" before this.

The Ruger M77 (PPT) DROS status went "delayed" last week and I am anticipating another "undetermined" based upon other's experiences stated on this forum (Turner's Tulare).

I have not had ANY changes in my eligibility, NO Tickets, NO Restraining Orders, NO fights, not even so much as a glance by LE or a Judge. So this is definitely a CA DOJ phenomena/nefarious tactic.

I've read people state "we" should only buy from FFLs that release on "undetermined", but that is not a reasonable approach for most (have only seen ONE FFL's name suggested in a far away community), and besides it only crutches the underlying issue. What I believe needs to happen is the CA DOJ needs to do their job. I am hoping CRPA, NRA or another brother in arms group file a class action that stops this frustrating CA DOJ delaying tactic.

P.S. I have not received ANY CA DOJ form letter explaining the delay for either purchase.

[pacrat]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

Matt, if speaking of >DENIALS< I would agree with your post. But this issue is about DELAYS, and the rapid increase of same. Same as when the Covid hit. At that time there was a rapid increase in DROS applications. And DOJ dealt with it by simply "delaying" rather than doing due diligence and actually dealing with the issue.

DROS was supposed to be self supporting. And it was more than so. Well known fact that DOJ syphoned off millions of $ to support APPS. Another dismal DOJ failure. Rather than hire enough support staff to actually handle DROS.

They admit to being unable to handle the rapid DROS increases because of there own malfeasances.

Which if you peruse CalGuns, "General" and "Ca Law Affect Me" forums. You will find the obvious chain reaction of exponential increase in "UNDETERMINED" status findings caused by these "delays" during DROS.

Which leads even more legal firearms purchases being denied by unscrupulous FFLs that refuse to "Release on Undetermined Status" after the 30 day delay codified in pc28220[4]. Directly connected to the intentionally inaccurate info contained on the DOJ FAQ website regarding 28220[4]. Which falsely claims discretion deferred to FFLs.

^^^SEE EDIT BELOW^^^ in relation to underlined.

I don't wear a tinfoil hat. But you don't need one to see a direct correlation between all these planned encumbrances to legal ownership of firearms in Ca. All of which originate at DOJ.

I became a CRPA Life Member shortly after Chuck took the helm. After dropping out back in the day when CRPA was ineffectual. Also NRA member since 1973, and a NRA Lifer since 1979.

ETA What is NOW on DOJ FAQ page in relation to "undetermined"

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

Obviously Bonta has chosen to remove what for the last 8 years I have been calling "KAMALA'S BIG LIE". Which was an additional sentence bestowing unwarranted "discretion" on FFLs as to delivering on undetermined. Here is a quote from DOJ FAQ archived here on CG from the time of Harris and Basura.

Undetermined

The LIE is the bolded sentence, which has been recently removed by Bonta.