Additional reactions culled from the case thread in Litigation

[tenemae]

Let's take, for example, the KY fetal heartbeat abortion ban that was also enjoined last week. Are you telling me that KY abortion doctors are going to now stop doing abortions after a heartbeat is detected because the ruling will be appealed and potentially reversed? Are they worried they could be charged for abortions done while the law was enjoined? No, of course not. The KY abortion bill is "law" and in the "books" too, but they are going to keep aborting babies with heartbeats. If people who violate laws while they are enjoined can be retroactively prosecuted, then enjoining a law is meaningless.

That..... is a compelling argument

[MC06]

Today's interview with Chuck Michel re: Duncan v. Becerra.
Listen to the part fro 23:00 to 30:00 where Chuck addresses 'possession vs. acquisition'.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/advanced-f...YaEqjrOEGmmZqc

Thanks for posting. For those listening go past the commercial break to about 38.00.

[JWHuey]

Today's interview with Chuck Michel re: Duncan v. Becerra.
Listen to the part fro 23:00 to 30:00 where Chuck addresses 'possession vs. acquisition'.

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/advanced-f...YaEqjrOEGmmZqc

Listen all the way thru 40:00...

[Strykeback]

Listen all the way thru 40:00...

I listened from 23 on. Hope my mags get shipped out before the stay happens. Either way this guys firm did phenomenal and I'm hoping Newsome and his turds are ****ting bricks right now

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[tony270]

The attorney seems imply that we are in for some bad publicity, "thousands of high capacity magazines are being shipped into California", heck he can hardly believe the outcome, a order and judgement at the same time.

[tenemae]

Listen to the part fro 23:00 to 30:00 where Chuck addresses 'possession vs. acquisition'.

Thanks, Kes. That was massively informative.

For everyone who's TLDR;, not even Chuck Michel knows what the legal status of mags (newly acquired this weekend) will eventually be. @36:00- Not even Chuck Michel knows if it is legal to acquire mags this weekend. If he doesn't know, I may as well stop googling.

It sounds like his uncertainty is because he's not familiar with every single PC in CA, and there may be some obscure PC which bans some part of the acquisition of LCMs.

@39:30- importing a LCM is very risky and dangerous (- Chuck)

[Discogodfather]

Thanks, Kes. That was massively informative.

For everyone who's TLDR;, not even Chuck Michel knows what the legal status of mags (newly acquired this weekend) will eventually be. @36:00- Not even Chuck Michel knows if it is legal to acquire mags this weekend. If he doesn't know, I may as well stop googling.

It sounds like his uncertainty is because he's not familiar with every single PC in CA, and there may be some obscure PC which bans some part of the acquisition of LCMs.

@39:30- importing a LCM is very risky and dangerous (- Chuck)

Not really sure if he talked about not knowing PC, he is making the argument that DOJ counsel might find something and perversely twist it's meaning. But Michel and his guys found no such thing and can't say what it would be.

He's basically concerned about the potential DOJ shenanigans.

[RickD427]

You are so far out in left field on this one. Let's take, for example, the KY fetal heartbeat abortion ban that was also enjoined last week. Are you telling me that KY abortion doctors are going to now stop doing abortions after a heartbeat is detected because the ruling will be appealed and potentially reversed? Are they worried they could be charged for abortions done while the law was enjoined? No, of course not. The KY abortion bill is "law" and in the "books" too, but they are going to keep aborting babies with heartbeats. If people who violate laws while they are enjoined can be retroactively prosecuted, then enjoining a law is meaningless.

To summarize the Michel conversation from a legality perspective Chuck made these points:

1) The ruling is both a judgement and an order
2) Michel and his group could not find anything to nitpick about the ruling meaning that shipments and sales and possession is supposedly legal now
3) Chuck cautioned everyone that DOJ's counsel is likely to come up with some absurd argument and get a stay on as early as Tuesday
4) Chuck seemed to suggest that acquiring anything right now has some tangible risk to it
I guess that's the word of caution any good lawyer would tell you, but the fact that Benetiz made this an order and a judgement (whatever that means) has some really strong implications and usually a judgement is final and goes into effect immediately.

As the wise man counseled, I'm not gonna get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

If you won't believe it from me, then please listen to the interview with Chuck Michel. He's the attorney that won this victory and he knows what he's talking about.

[Mesa Defense]

I'm thinking Rick will be along any minute with his perspective on this interesting conversation.

[SteelPastor]

I expect the AG to appeal this. But doing is risky from the Gun Control point of view. Right now, there's a single District Court opinion which is applying Heller the way it was written, and that decision applies only to mags in Cal. Heller has been largely ignored by many other courts.

The 9th would almost certainly reverse, and the District Court opinion is written, imo, in expectation of that. Which leads to . . . the Supreme Court. Which could quite likely issue a ruling that uses expansive language discussing Heller which would quickly (well, "quickly" in the geologic/legal sense of time) wipe out all kinds of gun regulations. The logic of this opinion would destroy the roster, many "assault weapon" laws, and so on. Appealing runs the risk of letting Kavanaugh write quite a good opinion.

This is exactly my take as well. I must say... I enjoy reading. I really enjoy reading court decisions. My 16-old-old daughter (who is on the early road to law school) and I read through the Young decision (Hawaii) and had a blast. She used the research to produce a paper for her college comp class. (Yes, proud Dad.)

I was inspired while reading this decision. I found out that the parents of Judge Benitez fled communist Cuba to come to the United States.

In my mind, he seemed to lay out his decision with SCOTUS in mind. I don't think the CA DOJ can stop itself, but they may soon rue the day if they appeal this decision.
.

[aBrowningfan]

To summarize the Michel conversation from a legality perspective Chuck made these points:

1) The ruling is both a judgement and an order
2) Michel and his group could not find anything to nitpick about the ruling meaning that shipments and sales and possession is supposedly legal now
3) Chuck cautioned everyone that DOJ's counsel is likely to come up with some absurd argument and get a stay on as early as Tuesday
4) Chuck seemed to suggest that acquiring anything right now has some tangible risk to it

I guess that's the word of caution any good lawyer would tell you, but the fact that Benetiz made this an order and a judgement (whatever that means) has some really strong implications and usually a judgement is final and goes into effect immediately.

This is the real issue for those who are itching to acquire some 10+ round magazines in the wake of Judge Benitez's order. Chuck Michel cautioned prospective magazine acquirers on this matter in the interview.

[tenemae]

Tom Gresham: "but we've got this three day window when- are they legal right now?"
Chuck Michel: "We don't know if we have a 3 day window. The judge did issue a judgement, which would imply that the order, that went along with the judgement, is final and the injunction is final. And everything that I've looked at suggests that that's the case: that this is a final order- a final judgement, so that injunction is in place right now against enforcement. But I don't know what the DoJ lawyers might come up with. I'm sure they have law clerks scouring the law books right now trying to find some way to say that you don't have the ability to acquire one of these magazines between the time that the judgement comes down and the time that they seek a stay. Will they find something? We couldn't."

[mroblivian]

This is the real issue for those who are itching to acquire some 10+ round magazines in the wake of Judge Benitez's order. Chuck Michel cautioned prospective magazine acquirers on this matter in the interview.

maybe i should've just bought privately instead of websites

[aBrowningfan]

maybe i should've just bought privately instead of websites

One more interesting thing - regarding sales on websites where the seller is out of state? How would CA-DoJ get the sales data for sales made to CA residents?

[butlers]

As the wise man counseled, I'm not gonna get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Damn. Somebody pass the