Additional reactions culled from the case thread in Litigation

[Psychbiker]

Beggars can’t be choosers but man, $30 for shipping on 7 Mags? Also noticed a few sites raise prices. It’s like found money for them this little window and they still raise prices?

I was away all weekend and was only able to get one order in while at the airport.

Would like some 10/22 25rd mags, 22lr ar mags, and mini-14 mags. Hard time finding a single vendor with all 3 types in stock. I don’t even have a mini-14 or dedicated 22lr but feel getting the Mags is important. I may try again in the morning.

[Chewy65]

As I said above, receiving the magazine after Benitez's order is stayed might subject you to criminal liability if 32310 is eventually held to be constitutional.

32310.
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

[ar15barrels]

Not much is being said about removing the pinned / blocks from std cap. mags.
A lot of std. cap 15 round mags were made into 10 rounders with easily removable blocks . Thoughts on those? As they are already in Ca.?
This reminds me of the crazy Ca. gun show days of the mid-late 90's. Nobody knew what was really going on. Same seems true today.

That falls under PC32310 which is currently unenforceable.
There is currently NO law against manufacturing of a large capacity magazine from a large capacity magazine that was previously converted to a low capacity magazine as long as you do not use a large capacity magazine conversion kit to do it.

[tuna quesadilla]

Yeah. It took them many years to start selling AR-style rifles in free states. I'm not even sure if they do here in California... it's been a long time since I've been to one.

[tenemae]

As I said above, receiving the magazine after Benitez's order is stayed might subject you to criminal liability if 32310 is eventually held to be constitutional.

Hypothetically....
If someone had ordered, and a stay is issued while their mags are in transit, then what constitutes "receiving"? What if UPS delivers the package to your porch and you never pick it up? What if it sits on your porch indefinitely, or at least until some passerby finally decides to snatch-and-run? Were you ever technically in possession?

[Chewy65]

One more interesting thing - regarding sales on websites where the seller is out of state? How would CA-DoJ get the sales data for sales made to CA residents?

Now that is a tuffy. What if:

1. They issue subpoenas to credit card companies and banks. That would be a lot of work.

2. Now what if the DOJ threatens to go after the licenses of the dealers unless they cooperate with an investigation by turning over records of all magazines shipped to California? Then the DOJ can cherry pick who to make examples of and wanna bet they go after low hanging fruit.

Yes, the courts of those other states routinely issue orders to serve subpoenas issued in California. Yes California criminal jurisdiction extends to vendors located in those other states, if they assist Californians with the illegal importation of product.

[Non Political Californian]

Hypothetically....
If someone had ordered, and a stay is issued while their mags are in transit, then what constitutes "receiving"? What if UPS delivers the package to your porch and you never pick it up? What if it sits on your porch indefinitely, or at least until some passerby finally decides to snatch-and-run? Were you ever technically in possession?

Hypothetically there was no signature required on the item and it was never received and at the same time I went and acquired mags in person and paid cash. Being a supporter of small gun stores I decided to treat it as a donation and not demand a refund.

[Discogodfather]

Now that is a tuffy. What if:

1. They issue subpoenas to credit card companies and banks. That would be a lot of work.

2. Now what if the DOJ threatens to go after the licenses of the dealers unless they cooperate with an investigation by turning over records of all magazines shipped to California? Then the DOJ can cherry pick who to make examples of and wanna bet they go after low hanging fruit.

Yes, the courts of those other states routinely issue orders to serve subpoenas issued in California. Yes California criminal jurisdiction extends to vendors located in those other states, if they assist Californians with the illegal importation of product.

They were successful in targeting around a half dozen small businesses last time, and that was just the city of SF right? Not sure about any other mag related DOJ thing. SF went after companies selling mag rebuild kits but didn't go after people, just the businesses. A DA office stunt threatening big lawsuits that was then settled.

Not sure what DOJ is going to do, if they do go after businesses or people it sends the SCOTUS issue up about 5000 notches. Why would they risk everything? I feel more and more that they are likely to take a loss here and move into further comfortable territory. Right now Newscum is crying to his aides because they are telling him that they can stand and fight on this hill, risking it all, or just eat crow and move into their well planned agenda of new laws they have almost 100% chance of making happen.

[MCM]

That falls under PC32310 which is currently unenforceable.
There is currently NO law against manufacturing of a large capacity magazine from a large capacity magazine that was previously converted to a low capacity magazine as long as you do not use a large capacity magazine conversion kit to do it.

Got it, so there basically like my grandfathered std cap mags from the 90's.
Or so it seems. Thanks!

[Chewy65]

Hypothetically....
If someone had ordered, and a stay is issued while their mags are in transit, then what constitutes "receiving"? What if UPS delivers the package to your porch and you never pick it up? What if it sits on your porch indefinitely, or at least until some passerby finally decides to snatch-and-run? Were you ever technically in possession?

I don't have a definitive answer, and this may be a question for the finder of fact (usually that means a jury but it would be a judge in a bench trial), however the trier of fact could by the prosecutions argument that delivery is customarily considered to be complete when a package is left on the door step and that by not returning or otherwise refusing its delivery receipt by the person placing the order was complete. You do realize that Big Brown has a record of the time and date of delivery. Possible of whether it was left on the porch or with a person.

[pistol3]

As I said above, receiving the magazine after Benitez's order is stayed might subject you to criminal liability if 32310 is eventually held to be constitutional.

If the order is stayed in a few days time, there could be tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of orders on the way to CA. It was legal to make the order, but you are a felon for receiving the order doesn't seem like a realistic outcome.

[tuna quesadilla]

Do we have any kind of estimate on how many Californians have placed orders for mags this weekend? Tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? I'm curious as to whether a higher order of magnitude might dissuade DOJ from trying to pursue individual criminal charges.

[Non Political Californian]

Everyone seems hellbent on figuring out a way that a win is actually a loss and to sit and do nothing like a gaggle of cucks.

In reality however, laws are only enforceable when followed. Sitting around and waiting is how you lose. Facts on the ground, once changed, are the new reality. When the left gets an injunction, they are lined up ready to blow that hole wide open and make later enforcement nigh impossible.

Take a cue and blow the door wide open. Are you waiting for the judge himself to come to your home and slam a D60 into your rifle? Get a mix of sensible and obscene, just to offend the enemy. Because that's what they are. The enemy.

[Chewy65]

If the order is stayed in a few days time, there could be tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of orders on the way to CA. It was legal to make the order, but you are a felon for receiving the order doesn't seem like a realistic outcome.

This is California and you expect gun law to be "realistic" as in it should make sense?

[Discogodfather]

Do we have any kind of estimate on how many Californians have placed orders for mags this weekend? Tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? I'm curious as to whether a higher order of magnitude might dissuade DOJ from trying to pursue individual criminal charges.

Judging from social media, which is way bigger than calguns, it's going to be in the tens of thousands. That will become much much more if no imminent stay occurs.