Preventable Tragedy

[TurboChrisB]

1) My situation is not your situation, nor relate to the cited link, and thoughts like yours are why legislative mandates are being pushed to enforce how you store your guns in your own home.

Your opinion stops at my door step. Let's leave it that way.


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Responsibility lies with YOU and YOU alone. Let me spring your ideas for legislation mandating this on you in another way; we need to ban guns for fear that someone might shoot up a movie theater, or their kid might take guns to a school and shoot a bunch of kids. Let's go beyond the lock-up issue and just bans guns entirely. Problem solved.

See how that works?

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Sometimes I think the modern sissification of our America is just plain sad.

I believe in freedom. REAL freedom. And I also believe that with real freedom comes REAL responsibility and that actions have consequences. I also believe it's not our government's job to save us from our own stupidity. Even if it means that some people and/or children will die. Because as tragic as that may be...freedom/liberty is what is ultimately in the best interest of the people.

You guys summed it up quite well.

[Dezrat]

I believe in freedom. REAL freedom. And I also believe that with real freedom comes REAL responsibility and that actions have consequences. I also believe it's not our government's job to save us from our own stupidity. Even if it means that some people and/or children will die. Because as tragic as that may be...freedom/liberty is what is ultimately in the best interest of the people.

Amen to this /\

[Milsurps]

Your going to love Shillery.

Yeah, the NRA are antigun too right?

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...your-firearms/

With Shillery we wont have any guns. Problem solved.

Crickets...

[elSquid]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-...L&ocid=DELLDHP

It's funny how this is newsworthy, but much more common causes of children's death are seemingly less so.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=18062332&postcount=99

page 107 Appendix 2: Categorization of Cause of Death: Numbers of Deaths from Unintentional Injuries among Children 0 to 19

The following lists the cause and the rate per 100,000.

Drowning - 1.4
Falls - 0.2
Fires - 0.7
Motor Vehicle Accidents ( Occupant in vehicle ) - 4.6
Motor Vehicle Traffic - 3.1
Pedestrian - 1.2
Bicycling - 0.2
Poisoning - 0.8
Suffocation - 1.2
Firearms - 0.2

It almost seems that firearms are singled out...

-- Michael

[LowThudd]

While I completely agree that guns should be locked up when kids are around, I don't believe in legislation making it manditory for ALL. Especially for those of us in "Kid Free Zone" type living situations.

I would like to point out, that as tragic as it is when it happens, many more children are killed by just about ANY other form than ND. Swimming pools, medications, chemicals, plastic bags and sharp table corners cause much more individually that firearms each year.

Point is, even if there were laws on all of these things being made child safe, some parents would still not. It is a far better idea to influence through education of prevention, then thinking a law will fix it.

Heck, there ARE strict laws on swimming pool access in CA and many other states, and yet drowning a in a pool is still one of the most common causes of child death.

[MarikinaMan]

Same as a bottle of rat poison, or Tide soap pods, a gun should be put away when not in your presence.

It was his responsibility, he has to live with it now. Thats a lot of consequence right there. Im sorry anyone has to live with anything like that. But sorry dont bring her back, or make things right.

[Win231]

These people are the same types who refuse to wear seatbelts because they insist they will be thrown free from the wreckage and survive with scrapes.

The fact we needed to make laws regarding seatbelts, child safety seats, and storing firearms shows just how willfully ignorant many people are.

Exactly what it indicates. Same for those annoying speed bumps in parking lots & neighborhoods. They scream: "We know people don't know better than to speed through a parking lot, risking pedestrian's lives, BUT they won't risk damage to their cars."

[Win231]

Agree. And yes, if I had ANY kids in the home, at any time my guns would be locked up. No question.

We just really need to avoid new laws stating otherwise (as City of Los Angeles has done) whether you have kids or not, because their motives for making such laws are not about safety, but more about control and measures to ban you from guns if such laws are broken whether the reason for those laws applies or not.

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The City of Los Angeles passed such laws due to tragedies caused by parents' negligence.

[Win231]

I am doing a little house hunting up here in Ory-Gun at the moment. I stopped by to do a walk-thru and in two of the rooms they had stainless lever guns on good ol' fashioned gun racks on the wall, along with a few other hunting rifles.

First thought, was ... " I am finally home"

Love this place.

I grew up in a household where me and my 4 brothers were all hunting by age 11. We had small caliber rifles that we would hunt with almost daily in our canyons and local mountains (within bmx bicycle distance haha!).

Sometimes I think the modern sissification of our America is just plain sad.

Uh...yeah....this 5 year old girl would still be alive if there were more guns on the wall & she'd hunted.

[MrOrange]

That it happened to a child is a tragedy, and yes the father is a flagellating idiot.

I wouldn't leave a loaded gun sitting out on a table while I took a shower if the only people in the house were Camp Perry champions. But please don't hold me responsible for this fool's Darwinism.

I believe in freedom. REAL freedom. And I also believe that with real freedom comes REAL responsibility and that actions have consequences. I also believe it's not our government's job to save us from our own stupidity. Even if it means that some people and/or children will die. Because as tragic as that may be...freedom/liberty is what is ultimately in the best interest of the people.

Lemme jump on the L84CABO bandwagon as well.

It's like the old saying: You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
(Which is why I always SMH when I see "Peace and Freedom Party".)

[audiophil2]

I have a swimming pool. It has a 5 foot high secured fence around it with a lock. My son is not allowed in it alone and knows the rules. We have drownings in AZ yearly.

I have 3 tool chests worth of hand and power tools including drills and torches and a mill. He knows not to touch any of them but they are unlocked.

I have typically 20-30 guns out in the open in my shop. My son has access to all of them. He knows not to touch them but if he wants to all he has to do is ask and I will stop my work and show it to him and help him take it apart.

This has been this way since he was 4. He has been shooting machine guns since he was 5.

I have been supervising him install bullet buttons on guns lately. He has done about 30 VEPR12's.

I just told him to move about 20 guns from storage to my work area so I can convert them tonight.

Yesterday my 3 friends and I went out shooting. We brought our kids ranging from 6-14. 2 girls and my son. They all shot suppressed .22's while we sat behind them under an e-z up giving advice and spotting. Not a single issue.

I lock up my guns only because there are so many of them. Many are NFA items. I do keep some guns easily accessible and my son knows where they are. If we have a domestic disturbance he will be handed a 9mm machine gun. If he gets into the hormonal teenage years I will restrict his access. SO far it has not been a problem. He is around guns everyday so he treats them the same way a car mechanic would treat a socket set. Like nothing interesting.

[SloChicken]

Uh...yeah....this 5 year old girl would still be alive if there were more guns on the wall & she'd hunted.

Sure she would, Just like Audiophil said - which is how I was raised. If her family taught her firearms safety and general respect there likely would have been a much different outcome. There have been no such incidents and my family has been hunting for generations.

That it happened to a child is a tragedy, and yes the father is a flagellating idiot.

I wouldn't leave a loaded gun sitting out on a table while I took a shower if the only people in the house were Camp Perry champions. But please don't hold me responsible for this fool's Darwinism.

If they were your enemies, or you didn't trust them, that is one thing, but why would you not trust a group of Camp Perry Champions?

I trust my family and friends around my firearms, but I guess we hang out with a different class of people ???

[baggss]

Yep. This is one (of many) where I detour from the gun crowd who insist that they have every god-given right to do whatever they feel with their guns.

In my own home, most certainly. I'm not sure why you feel it's ok to dictate to ANYBODY what is or isn't acceptable in their private residence.

I'm guessing you survived your childhood because you "were raised right?" That's my favorite one, when grown folks have forgotten that children lack the capacity and understanding of the gravity of consequences for their actions.

It's ok though, hundreds of kids will die from negligence year after year and it will continue to give a valid premise to the people who argue citizens aren't responsible enough to protect themselves with firearms. As long as it doesn't happen to you individually it isn't worth considering.

.02% per 100,000 is minuscule. Stop the rhetorical "it's for the childrem" game. It's silly and makes you look like an anti-2A shill. Contrary to what you may believe, some people actually raise kids who aren't idiots and were raised well by their own parents. Obviously you feel this is impossible and the governments help is needed to do it correctly.

Agree. And yes, if I had ANY kids in the home, at any time my guns would be locked up. No question.

We just really need to avoid new laws stating otherwise (as City of Los Angeles has done) whether you have kids or not, because their motives for making such laws are not about safety, but more about control and measures to ban you from guns if such laws are broken whether the reason for those laws applies or not.

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Agreed. We don't need more bad legislation.

The City of Los Angeles passed such laws due to tragedies caused by parents' negligence.

How's that enforcement going for them? Oh wait, they can't enforce it so it's about trying to control people through threats. Sounds like extortion to me.

[bsg]

when a child is in my home, do i keep firearms that are not under my immediate control in a locked container? yes.
do i need the government to tell me to do this via the passage of more gun laws? no.
is it right for the government to tell me to do this via the passage of more gun laws? no.

[ChuckDizzle]

In my own home, most certainly. I'm not sure why you feel it's ok to dictate to ANYBODY what is or isn't acceptable in their private residence.

So a rape is ok if it is within the privacy of your own home? Why would public or private property make a difference to an act of criminal negligence?