Haley has ND while demoing old school AK techniques...

[Bakerloo]

"I'm the only one in this room professional enough...to carry this Glock 40."
A ND is a ND...

[calif 15-22]

Looked like an AD to me.

Opinions on whether this is a AD or an ND?

From Wiki:

Accidental discharge (AD) may occur when the trigger of the firearm is deliberately pulled for a purpose other than shooting—dry-fire practice, demonstration, or function testing—but ammunition is unintentionally left in the chamber.[1] Unintentionally leaving a firearm loaded is more likely to occur when the individual handling the gun is poorly trained, and perhaps also with removable-magazine-fed firearms (as the magazine may be removed, giving an unloaded appearance even when a round remains chambered.

Negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. A number of armed forces automatically consider any accidental discharge to be negligent discharge, under the assumption that a trained soldier has control of his firearm at all times. This is the case in the United States Army,[4] Canadian Army, the Royal Air Force, the British Army and various Police Forces within the United Kingdom. A negligent discharge occurs when a weapon is fired due to either operator error or a lack of attention to basic safety rules


Just curious on the distinction

[Paperchasin]

Good thing no one got hurt.

[Dano3467]

Looks to me he did indeed touch that trigger.

[cannon]

Just more proof that no matter who you are. If you stop thinking about safety. You become unsafe.

He made a mistake. Instead of trying to pretend it didn't happen. He should have taken the opportunity to reinforce safe handling.

[CandG]

Opinions on whether this is a AD or an ND?

From Wiki:

Accidental discharge (AD) may occur when the trigger of the firearm is deliberately pulled for a purpose other than shooting—dry-fire practice, demonstration, or function testing—but ammunition is unintentionally left in the chamber.[1] Unintentionally leaving a firearm loaded is more likely to occur when the individual handling the gun is poorly trained, and perhaps also with removable-magazine-fed firearms (as the magazine may be removed, giving an unloaded appearance even when a round remains chambered.

Negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. A number of armed forces automatically consider any accidental discharge to be negligent discharge, under the assumption that a trained soldier has control of his firearm at all times. This is the case in the United States Army,[4] Canadian Army, the Royal Air Force, the British Army and various Police Forces within the United Kingdom. A negligent discharge occurs when a weapon is fired due to either operator error or a lack of attention to basic safety rules


Just curious on the distinction

There is virtually no such thing as an accidental discharge.

That definition of an AD makes no sense - Pulling the trigger intentionally without checking to see if a round is chambered is negligence, plain and simple. Is that not "a lack of attention to basic safety rules"?

The only "accidental discharge" scenario is if the gun pretty much fires itself, or by some factor outside of anyone's control. Like if a sear broke and made the hammer drop on a gun that wasn't even being held. Or if a meteor drops out of the sky and lands precisely on your trigger.

It's the same thing as cars. Yes, they are always called "car accidents", but how often are they really caused by pure accident, rather than negligence? Nearly all rear-end collisions are negligent, you were following too closely or not paying attention. Nearly all T-bones are negligent, you either ran the stop sign/light, or you didn't thoroughly examine the cross-traffic. Etc. The only ones that are truly "accidents" are things such as a deer running in front of you and you slam on your brakes and hit a tree. Or your brakes failed going down a hill. Or you blowout a tire on a nail and your car hit the guardrail.

An accident means that anyone, with all due diligence, could have had the same thing happen. That is CLEARLY not the case with this video.

[rkt88edmo]

There is virtually no such thing as an accidental discharge.

Pulling the trigger intentionally without checking to see if a round is chambered is negligence, plain and simple. Is that not "a lack of attention to basic safety rules"?

The only "accidental discharge" scenario is if the gun pretty much fires itself, or by some factor outside of anyone's control. Like if a sear broke and made the hammer drop on a gun that wasn't even being held. Or if a meteor drops out of the sky and lands precisely on your trigger.

Agree - not sure if there are legal/military defined definitions as the wiki quote alludes to, but since I've been aware of the advent of "ND not AD", I've generally heard ADs categorized as mechanical failures or "acts of god", and just about everything else derives from operator error and is ND.

[therealnickb]

Pretty sure he didn't intend to fire that weapon. It was an accident. No one got hurt. Nothing was damaged.

[Barang]

... and the it was pointed in the safe direction, thank goodness.

[Killer Bee]

Agree - not sure if there are legal/military defined definitions as the wiki quote alludes to, but since I've been aware of the advent of "ND not AD", I've generally heard ADs categorized as mechanical failures or "acts of god", and just about everything else derives from operator error and is ND.

both of the above posters are correct, textbook ND..

I'm a little rusty on my .mil pubs and regs as I'm closing in on 7 years retired and not going to bother searching for it

years ago, accidental discharge was redefined to circumstances beyond the shooter's control and the more correct term negligent discharge replaced it..

in almost every case, shooter control or the lack thereof [negligence] is the primary factor in the discharge of a firearm..

for instance, we see a fair amount of m240 ND's due to lack of familiarity of the open bolt operation.. no fault of the weapon however..

[hermosabeach]

??????????????????

Pretty sure he didn't intend to fire that weapon. It was an accident. No one got hurt. Nothing was damaged.

The thread title pretty much sums this up as an ND

[lastinline]

OOOOOOO..............(hands wave wildly).....
Black rifles.......
Black Tactical Dust....
Bearded Operators.....
Super-Duper Ultra Wazoo Training Classes.....
Worship at the feet, groveling to some mythical God of Uber Tactical Realm...
Some idiot gets away with firing his weapon when he shouldn't have, the Tactical fan-boys jump to his internet rescue, the other side tries to crucify him through glass screens...
And the rest of us could CARE LESS, but see all this as pure entertainment.
Carry on Jackles, the mud-slinging is only second to the presidential election build up.

[451040]

And the rest of us could CARE LESS.

At least you care!

[Citizen_B]

He made a mistake, it happens: human nature. Preferred to not have that mistake shown to the world, especially in his industry: human nature. It was claimed he denied it happened: understandable but bizarre and another mistake.

Every expert with real experience in their field has made mistakes. Armchair quarterbacks preaching firearm safety rules don't get it.

Politicians and people of interest say or make mistakes on camera/record all the time. Trying to hide/deny it and get caught is the worst outcome. Best to own up to it, make lemonade, and get on with life.

[orangeusa]

Don't you know that your real life exsperiance of actually doing the things that high speed gun gamers and training groupies pretend to do means absolutely nothing.
You have to know who all these guys with cool sounding training schools are and attend all their courses to really be a high speed pretend war fighter and gunman. Your out of the lope man, do you even know the name of any ex-operators.

You mean - like a groupie? LOLZ

QUESTION:
How bad is the video? I really don't want to watch it...