Haley has ND while demoing old school AK techniques...

[CandG]

He made a mistake, it happens: human nature. Preferred to not have that mistake shown to the world, especially in his industry: human nature. It was claimed he denied it happened: understandable but bizarre and another mistake.

Every expert with real experience in their field has made mistakes. Armchair quarterbacks preaching firearm safety rules don't get it.

Politicians and people of interest say or make mistakes on camera/record all the time. Trying to hide/deny it and get caught is the worst outcome. Best to own up to it, make lemonade, and get on with life.

I don't think anyone was claiming that it can't (or doesn't) happen to everyone at some point, we were just trying to point out that operator error is the only reason it happened.

At least the other dude who shot himself in the leg ("I just ****ing shot myself!") on youtube owned up to it, admitted his carelessness, and even uploaded the video himself to show all his viewers that it can happen to anyone, and to be safe. If he never uploaded the video, nobody would have known it happened. I give that guy a lot of respect for that. Whereas this guy in the OP video laughed about it and said "let's not put that in the final video" because he doesn't want to tarnish his record of being a flawless operator, which is far less respectable, even though luckily nobody got hurt. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but we should own up to them, learn from them, and move on.

[lastinline]

Politicians and people of interest say or make mistakes on camera/record all the time. Trying to hide/deny it and get caught is the worst outcome. Best to own up to it, make lemonade, and get on with life.

Very true. How we recover from the problems we create is what counts.

[Citizen_B]

QUESTION:
How bad is the video? I really don't want to watch it...

Haley is demonstrating why certain trigger finger rest positions are bad. One of the positions is on forward trigger guard under pressure. Finger slips in, bang, pointed in ground, giggles, the end.

[orangeusa]

Agree - not sure if there are legal/military defined definitions as the wiki quote alludes to, but since I've been aware of the advent of "ND not AD", I've generally heard ADs categorized as mechanical failures or "acts of god", and just about everything else derives from operator error and is ND.

The only AD I can think of is when a sear is damaged and sends multiple rounds downrange... Not even sure if that is an AD.

Haley is demonstrating why certain trigger finger rest positions are bad. One of the positions is on forward trigger guard under pressure. Finger slips in, bang, pointed in ground, giggles, the end.

Thx. I am at work, and kinda have to watch what I'm peering at.

I did like that he owned up to it right away. He said ND two times. "I should have never had that ND..."

[therealnickb]

The thread title pretty much sums this up as an ND

It was still an accident.

I don't agree with the blanket use of negligence. To me negligence implies liability for damage or potential damage. If a weapon is safely pointed at a backstop, I'm not ready to assign negligence to every unintended shot fired. The backstop is built to accept bullets.

That said, there is never any excuse for being careless with a firearm.

[lastinline]

At least the other dude who shot himself in the leg on youtube owned up to it, admitted his mistake, and even uploaded the video himself to show all his viewers that it can happen to anyone, and to be safe. I give that guy a lot of respect for that. Whereas this guy in the OP video laughed about it and said "let's not put that in the final video" because he doesn't want to tarnish his record of being a flawless operator, which is far less respectable, even though luckily nobody got hurt.

In this case I would say the "country bumpkin" did a much better job of handling the situation than the "Ballistic High-Speed, Low Drag, Direct Impingement-Gas Piston Tactical FOB Prius Operator".

[orangeusa]

It was still an accident.

I don't agree with the blanket use of negligence. To me negligence implies liability for damage or potential damage. If a weapon is safely pointed at a backstop, I'm not ready to assign negligence to every unintended shot fired. The backstop is built to accept bullets.

That said, there is never any excuse for being careless with a firearm.

He called it an ND two times in the video.

[therealnickb]

He called it an ND two times in the video.

I understand and explained why I disagree.

[meno377]

It was still an accident.

I don't agree with the blanket use of negligence. To me negligence implies liability for damage or potential damage. If a weapon is safely pointed at a backstop, I'm not ready to assign negligence to every unintended shot fired. The backstop is built to accept bullets.

That said, there is never any excuse for being careless with a firearm.

Your last sentence contradicts your previous paragraph. A negligent discharge is due to carelessness in regards to safety.

[Mitch]

Wow, how did he get funding for that crap? When do "high end snipers" use lights? So much wrong in that video

I haven't seen the video, but just for your information I know sheriff department "snipers" who use lights. A long distance shot for a LE sniper might be from across the street; and in many, many cases, unlike the military, LE snipers want the perp to know they are there, the better to encourage quick reappraisal of their anti-social actions. Lighting them up from under the hedge might just do the trick (as well as assisting the shooter in seeing the target).

It's a different tactical environment.

[therealnickb]

Your last sentence contradicts your previous paragraph. A negligent discharge is due to carelessness in regards to safety.

I'm pretty sure humans can make mistakes without being careless. Fatigue and ignorance are the first things that come to mind when I think about accidents that may not involve carelessness.

[meno377]

I'm pretty sure humans can make mistakes without being careless. Fatigue and ignorance are the first things that come to mind when I think about accidents that may not involve carelessness.

He could of dropped it and if it would have gone off, it could be considered an accidental discharge. Even then, considering he was shooting a video, I would still consider that being a ND.

But that's not what happened here. His finger was in the trigger guard and subsequently the gun went off. His carelessness was having a live round in the chamber. His forgetfulness about the live round is also carelessness.

Is it an honest mistake? Perhaps. Obviously he didn't intend for it to go off, but as I have been taught as well as others here and abroad, this is considered a negligent discharge.

[small hole shooter]

Brilliant: demonstrating AK finger discipline with a loaded chamber.

Oh, I am pretty certain that AK has an modified trigger. He was taken aback by the ease of the pull. That is why I don't eer want to ever modify my rifle triggers. They are heavy for a reason. ... well, except my Marlin 60 and its awful gritty pull and unpredictable break.

My AMD 65 came with a hair trigger. I really have to be careful with it. The more I shoot it the touchier it gets.

[calif 15-22]

My AMD 65 came with a hair trigger. I really have to be careful with it. The more I shoot it the touchier it gets.

I was thinking something similar as I was looking to find a Daniel Defense V11 Pro until I realized it came with the Geissele Super Dynamic 3 Trigger.

[dwalker]

I think it is funny that there are still people (apparently have even watched the video) that do not get that he was demonstrating WHY those two techniques are bad and he disagrees with them.
I have no problem with him fingerbanging the trigger and the gun going off, it was what he was demonstrating could happen and low and behold thats what happened.
My problem with his reaction was that MUCH LATER, like a year or so, when the video became public he denied it had happened that way. Not cool.

As fas as AD vs ND, the fact that that technique is TAUGHT in many countries as a standard practice and he was literally demonstrating why thats a bad idea defeats the argument of negligence. HE called it that because hell, I would have said the same thing, but the craphouse lawyers out here in intraweb land who are dissecting it should be smart enough to realize that if you are demonstrating a technique which is taught as proper and the gun goes off when you did not intend it to, its an accident, as you really cant be negligent following a technique to the letter and your finger slips, which is the problem with that technique. Kinda like if I put a Pro driver in my race car and he slides it off the track while on the proper racing line and writes off the car, its not negligence, its an accident.