Mojave Lever Crew - Roll Call!

[golfish]

I can't afford a new gun right now, but I did just get back from the Mojave Preserve today. It was pretty windy but nice sunny weather other than that. Cedar Canyon Road is partially washed out between Black Rock Canyon and Lanfair Valley and we did not risk trying to navigate the deep, soft, sandy area as we were in my buddy's 2WD truck and there was a somewhat sharp curve involved in the middle of it.

The rains of the somewhat recent past out there have damaged many of the roads and washed a lot of sand into spots. Other than some deer, including a very nice buck running with some does, we only saw 1 coyote who was running lickety split. We did not see or hear a single quail and no rabbits, either jack or cottontail. My knees and feet are aching from the abuse, but it was still a fabulous time.

Thanks for the info. That soft sand has got me stuck more than once.

[Kerplow]

I ordered up some of them Missourah 30-30 boolets, now I just need dies.

I was looking at the 2 die RCBS set but then I saw the 3 die Lee set with factory crimp die that also comes with a shell holder.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t need the factory crimp die, nor do I want an extra die step, but I’m still a bit unsure of what crimp the Lee bullet seater die does. I haven’t loaded anything for lever guns before, but I’m under the impression that a roll crimp is what I should be using?

[200Apples]

Roll crimp for straight wall revolver brass, die crimp for any bottleneck brass stuffed into a tube mag.

[ar15barrels]

Get the RCBS die set.
They are better made than Lee.

You can use the seat/crimp die in two different setups.
First setup the die to seat without crimping and seat all your bullets.
Then setup the die to crimp without seating and crimp all your bullets.

You roll crimp into a cannelure or crimp groove.
You taper crimp against the side of the bullet if there's no cannelure or crimp groove.

[Kerplow]

Get the RCBS die set.
They are better made than Lee.

You can use the seat/crimp die in two different setups.
First setup the die to seat without crimping and seat all your bullets.
Then setup the die to crimp without seating and crimp all your bullets.

You roll crimp into a cannelure or crimp groove.
You taper crimp against the side of the bullet if there's no cannelure or crimp groove.

Thanks for the info, I was hoping to get away with seat and crimp in the same step lol. All my dies are RCBS so I lean that way, with the exception being a set of Redding dies for 308.

[ar15barrels]

Thanks for the info, I was hoping to get away with seat and crimp in the same step lol.

That's not a good way to do it.
You get better results separating seating from crimping.

If you crimp while seating, the bullet is still moving WHILE you are crimping so the case will dig into the bullet.
Lead bullets are not strong enough to resist the brass case from cutting into them.

When you separate the crimping, now you are ONLY moving the brass against the bullet as the bullet is not moving while the case is being crimped.

[Kerplow]

You know when you’re doing laundry and you find $20 in a pocket?

I was just digging trough some crap and found I have 4000 large pistol primers.

I was looking for large rifle primers, which I found a stash of 800.

I bought the LPP years and years ago for loading 45acp, which I still haven’t gotten around to.

Anyone wanna trade 1000 LPP for 1000 LRP?

[Kerplow]

That's not a good way to do it.
You get better results separating seating from crimping.

If you crimp while seating, the bullet is still moving WHILE you are crimping so the case will dig into the bullet.
Lead bullets are not strong enough to resist the brass case from cutting into them.

When you separate the crimping, now you are ONLY moving the brass against the bullet as the bullet is not moving while the case is being crimped.

[ar15barrels]

The only time I’ve crimped was with coated 429 bullets for 44 magnum.
Many of the rounds were getting shaved a bit on seating/crimping.

Two things to eliminate the shaving of lead.
First, make sure that you are not seating the bullets so deep that when the case is crimped in, it is hitting the bullet ABOVE the crimp groove.
Second, seat and crimp separately.

You should be able to see some of the crimp groove showing ABOVE the the case mouth once the bullets are seated.
This ensures that the case will be crimped INTO the crimp groove when you do the crimping operation.

[Kerplow]

Two things to eliminate the shaving of lead.
First, make sure that you are not seating the bullets so deep that when the case is crimped in, it is hitting the bullet ABOVE the crimp groove.
Second, seat and crimp separately.

You should be able to see some of the crimp groove showing ABOVE the the case mouth once the bullets are seated.
This ensures that the case will be crimped INTO the crimp groove when you do the crimping operation.

How imperative is uniform case length? These 44 cases were all untrimmed.

It seems like a proper uniform crimp would be highly dependent on case length.

EDIT: after reading your post again, I would think that the crimp groove is long enough that case OAL wouldn’t effect lead shaving as long as the bullet was seated with enough clearance to be within the groove.

[ar15barrels]

0.005" variation is fine but much more than that and you should be sorting the headstamps or trimming them to get them consistent IF you are depending on a consistent crimp to help get the combustion more consistent.
If your purpose for crimping is only to deny setback, then the variation in crimp won't matter so just make sure that the longest cases won't dig into the bullet.

You ideally want to set the crimp against the BOTTOM edge of the crimp groove.
Think about pushing the bullet into the case so that maybe half of the crimp groove is exposed and THEN crimping down against that bottom edge.

You can't get that to happen when you are seating and crimping at the same time.

[Kerplow]

0.005" variation is fine but much more than that and you should be sorting the headstamps or trimming them to get them consistent IF you are depending on a consistent crimp to help get the combustion more consistent.
If your purpose for crimping is only to deny setback, then the variation in crimp won't matter so just make sure that the longest cases won't dig into the bullet.

You ideally want to set the crimp against the BOTTOM edge of the crimp groove.
Think about pushing the bullet into the case so that maybe half of the crimp groove is exposed and THEN crimping down against that bottom edge.

You can't get that to happen when you are seating and crimping at the same time.

With that said, if I want all my crimps to start at the bottom edge of the groove it sounds like I need pretty damn uniform brass. I just measured a handful of 44 brass and got about .010 spread on the high side. They were all somewhere between 2.260 & 2.670, with a few being closer to or at the long measurement.

EDIT: my main purpose for crimping is to deny setback. I won’t be shooting groups with these rounds, only looking for a satisfying ping of the steel.

[Kerplow]

I’m almost embarrassed to say it, but I bought another lever rifle, and it wasn’t a sale that would make Randall jealous.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/913848932?a=1

[bigbossman]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/913848932?a=1

Nice grab.... Digging the case coloring.

[Kerplow]

Nice grab.... Digging the case coloring.