Open Carry Story...

[retired]

Bird of Fire, I don't what station you went to of course, but after looking at Deputy Good's pic in our 2000 photo album, I can tell you were speaking to a deputy with at least 8 years of experience on. He actually looks familiar to me, tho I can't recall from where; he may have worked CJ when I was a sgt.

I realize the experience by itself doesn't necessarily mean anything as evidenced by the OP's initial post, but you seem to have met one whose experience and knowledge was good. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy that a dep. from my former dept. was able to help you out, unlike the ones who "helped" out BWO.

Good for you in taking the initiative and good luck to you if you OC.

Liberty1, those were interesting links; thanks for the info.

[Bird of Fire]

Bird of Fire, I don't what station you went to of course, but after looking at Deputy Good's pic in our 2000 photo album, I can tell you were speaking to a deputy with at least 8 years of experience on. He actually looks familiar to me, tho I can't recall from where; he may have worked the CJ when I was a sgt.

I realize the experience by itself doesn't necessarily mean anything as evidenced by the OP's initial post, but you seem to have met one whose experience and knowledge was good. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy that a dep. from my former dept. was able to help you out, unlike the ones who "helped" out BWO.

Good for you in taking the initiative and good luck to you if you OC.

I have a family member that works with LASD, so I plan on speaking to them about the deputy next time I meet up with em. He seemed to be about 29-32 years old (pretty young for a sheriff) so I'm willing to wager it was the same individual then. Small world!

The station in question was out in the sticks (Antelope valley and all) so he may be biased when it comes to carrying and firearms, since I am butted up awfully close to Kern county. Which I don't necessarily feel is a bad thing. He was friendly and never once attempted to intimidate me, merely that if they get a call about a man with a gun, they'll do what they need to do to ensure they don't get hurt, which I understand. He more or less told me the balls in my court and to give it some thought.

[Nra-Life-Member]

4thSeal - Nice Job and Well Done.

[GuyW]

From Police Chiefs Magazine regarding gun calls and terry stops:

http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&article_id=757&issue_id=122005

"...if it reasonably appears that a suspect is not only armed but also dangerous..."

This might be an uninformed opinion, but it seems that, in common police useage, armed = dangerous ("armed-and-dangerous").

It's refreshing, then, to see the de-linkage of the words here...

[retired]

Again, I'm glad you had a good experience BOF.

Actually, a cadet can hire on at 20 1/2. He then spends anywhere from 3-6yrs. in either custody, the courts or transportation (the big buses). If he hasn't lost all of his morale by then and lateraled to another dept., he goes to patrol.

A lot of guys leave when there is a hiring freeze and they know they have to work 6yrs. in custody. AV takes awhile to get to since people that work there, generally live in that area and there isn't much movement out of there.

[razorx]

So by the reasoning in your statement marked in red, a law enforcement officer will treat someone who doesnt appear armed with less caution and scrutiny than someone who was carrying their firearms in a belt holster? If the police are doing as they were trained, they would be equally cautious, because anyone can be armed with a concealed weapon and pose just as lethal a threat as someone with an obviously holstered sidearm.

As for your comment in blue- I will be interested to see the results with how this is recieved. I suspect that there will be very different reactions from different departments. When I first asked about the legality of open carry, I was in my 20's. I had gone to the stationhouse asked to speak to an officer and once I asked- the officer was clearly on the defensive, even taking a bladed stance as they began interrogating me- asking questions like "Why would you want to do that? You looking to get into a fight? Are you some kind of show-off?" Needless to say, I never received a legitimate answer or properly formed answer. More recently, after I notified local law enforcement of my intentions and the legality of exposed carry, communication with them was peppered with intimidation. At some point, I expect some reactions to be accusatory and use some form of intimidation in order to discourage this activity. Once word of that circulates, some of the support we see here may fall away.

Equally cautious is a dangerous fallacy IMNSHO since it does not recognize that humans operate differently than programmable machines. Otherwise we would just operate at "Red Alert" all the time which is not sustainable. Basic color code of situational awareness is a good analogy for degrees of caution. Key point is that there should always be a minimum level of cautiousness/awareness that one can never drop below.

It is expected that there would be varying reactions to Open Carry but it is always better to be proactive promotion than reactive justification. Why Open Carry? Tell them the truth. This is part of a freedom of speech campaign to address inequities regarding issuance of CCW (Shall not) in CA. Maybe someone has another "truth" for OC, but make it reasonable. Not some backwoods 2A extremist just doing it because he/she can.

It won't sell to everyone, but they can't say they weren't notified and will help shorten future discussions/encounters. Individually attempted, I tend to have the same concerns you have. However, part of a publicized program of civil "obedience" to raise awareness might actually work. Civil disobedience has been used to enact change, why not civil obedience?

[E Pluribus Unum]

I spent the last hour scouring through my area's laws. The only more restrictive ordinance is a city ordinance forbidding the posession of firearms in parks within city limits.

I would imagine that if Heller goes our way this could be held as unconstitutional but its not much for me to go to a county park.

[biscuitninja]

Its good to hear everything went ok. I'm a much bigger beliver of CCW than open carry.

Someday I'm going to do a study and people who open carry and have gotten stopped. I'm also going to study people who've used a weapon in any sort of felony. I'm betting 99.9999% of the time the people who CCW (doing so illegally) never really got stopped.

My issue is that when we NEEDED a police officer, it took them 20 (TWENTY) ,minutes to get somebody there. Being a little preturbed, I checked to see if there were other things happening that night. (after a LONG wait to get the information) it seemed that there were only traffic stops that night, nothing major (excet for us).

[RobG]

Thats awesome!!

Well if you work for the same company I do with the same lame azz union, I wouldn't expect much more, friend or not. The EMS agency can deny you for different reasons. My last intern was denied because of a MIP (minor in possession) years prior but jumped thru the hoops to get accredited. Then we have a guy that got a DUI and nothing happened. But, you gotta do what you feel comfortable doing.

[Liberty1]

I spent the last hour scouring through my area's laws. The only more restrictive ordinance is a city ordinance forbidding the posession of firearms in parks within city limits.

I would imagine that if Heller goes our way this could be held as unconstitutional but its not much for me to go to a county park.

In most of unincorporated Kern one may open carry loaded if not in a county maintained park (county ordinance against discharge) or on a public road or highway (374c?). But all other areas are legal IMO, for example any parking lot, store or other private property. One could legally load up and unload in the parking lot in between conducting business.

Unfortunately this creates unnecessary risk in handling of the firearm. I like to keep mine loaded 24/7 only handling it twice a day; from the bedside safe to holster and back at the end of the day.

[Liberty1]

I'm a much bigger believer of CCW than open carry.

I'm not. CC in CA, being done by an insignificant number of individuals, doesn't in and of itself deter any crime here. It may have an indirect benefit in those states where CC is known by the criminal element due to publicity, the media reporting on it often, or through a self defense use.

However the main benefit of CC is a general deterrence, not a direct one of the carrier until it's use becomes regretibly immediate. I would prefer to avoid that altogether and believe OC accomplishes that.

OC in CA on the other hand has a direct and immediate effect IMO of deterring crime at least for the time in the place were the OCer is present.

If it weren't for the legal fear or the social sigma many feel is there, OC wold be the best way IMO to "communicate" to the BGs to find a different target. If CC were also common the OCer is then helping to remind the BG that private persons are armed (OC and CC) and to choose a less risky endeavor like "cold" burglaries.

I think we need both and it should be left to personal choice and not legislative whim. And Open Carry needs to be a court protected right so the CCer can enjoy their legislative regulated,taxed, renewed, finger printed, tested, three pistol listed, licensed privilege.

[Matt C]

OC in CA on the other hand has a direct and immediate effect IMO of deterring crime at least for the time in the place were the OCer is present.

I agree, but I'm not sure how much good it does. Night before last I was in a 7-11 at about 12:30 AM (yeah I know), unarmed as I am these days. Well 3 your Hispanics walked in, from the tattoos and dress it was probable they were gang members. They went to the back where I was, and put on some nice black cotton gloves, which seemed a bit unseasonal. When they saw me they were nice enough to wait until I left nbe doing anything, as I pulled out I saw going behind the register and by the time I was out of the lot they were walking out the door. They waited for me to pick out my stuff, pay and then robbed the place anyway. I was not OCing of course, but I doubt it would have made much difference, just delayed the crime. This was the 7-11 on Floral just outside of Monterey Park on the E. LA side if any LASD on here want to confirm.

In fact I think they waited because for whatever reason they assumed I might be CCWing.

[biscuitninja]

Hey those guys were very thoughtful!

While I agree that open carrying will deter alot of BG's, I'd rather not advertise. As well I'd rather keep myself in a place that minimizes my exposure to BG's.

Side Note:
But I will say that some roadrage idiot and his "Krew" were road raging in 5PM traffic (Irvine/Jamboree). Best I could do was get out of the way. Didn't stop them from being idiots though.... But that's another story....

Good luck
-bix

[Turbinator]

In fact I think they waited because for whatever reason they assumed I might be CCWing.

Why do you figure they thought you might be CCW'ing? This is CA after all, not many people have CCW's.

On top of that, would you endanger your own life to stop a robbery of a place that wasn't your own? Is it worth protecting someone else's money against people who may have nothing to lose? Just my own thinking here.

Turby

[E Pluribus Unum]

On top of that, would you endanger your own life to stop a robbery of a place that wasn't your own? Is it worth protecting someone else's money against people who may have nothing to lose? Just my own thinking here.

This idea of "well, he's not coming after me so I will mind my own business" is a tad bit sheepish. If you were being robbed by people stronger than you would you expect a stranger to help you? American citizenship has been earned through millions of people risking their lives for freedom from tyranny in all forms. United we stand; divided we fall. The bullies of society prey on the weak and isolated. If you are not there to help those that need it, it is only a matter of time until you are the one that needs the help.

In fact I think they waited because for whatever reason they assumed I might be CCWing.

He probably saw your face plastered all over the news for a couple months...