Open Carry Story...

[Bizcuits]

Decided to carry both the taser and the 45 today (least the cops cant say why dont you get a taser), went to the Gas station and to Staples to get a voice recorder... No problems from anyone and no police response.

The LT didnt want me going to the chief he wanted me to deal with him directly if any more problems arose. I told him how badly the comments by the 2nd and 3rd responding officers effected me. Being threatened with arrest with no crime commited and being threatened with having my property/weapon taken away with no crime commited. He asked me how long I had been a paramedic I told him 10 yrs. He said in those 10 yrs didnt you ever say anything that you regretted or was wrong in the heat of the moment. I said Roger that, but officer 2 and 3 showed up after i offered my weapon to the 1st patrol man for inspection and was disarmed prior to their arrival. There was no heat of the moment.

So I think he got were i was coming from without putting out the amendments and civil liberty speeches and trying to put him on the defensive.

I do not want to have a poor relationship with any PD (I have ran 911 calls in Manteca as a medic.) Trying to keep thing civil as possible but I want to be able to do what the law allows me to do.

Bonafide badass!

[DedEye]

Don't give this up 4th!

[4thSeal]

I was talking with a friend of mine at work a little bit ago... He is the union shop steward and he told me that just being arrested and booked for a criminal offense will cost you your medic / emt cet. You dont even have to be convicted. Being a paramedic is all I know and I cant risk losing that... so I guess this is the end of my open carrying. I was willing sacrifice a certain portion of my life to either bring about change and awareness because in the end there was a high probability of me winning in court and not going to jail. Yes it would have cost me a lot of my saving in lawyer fees and possible jail time till bail was made but I always figured I would still have the ability of employment and life after the fact.

So from now on I will be promoting change with letters and flyers to police departments. Hopefully something will change for California and lawful gun owners.

[GuyW]

I was talking with a friend of mine at work a little bit ago... He is the union shop steward and he told me that just being arrested and booked for a criminal offense will cost you your medic / emt cet....

Sounds like FUD to me....so I'd respectfully suggest competent legal advice before you cave on your excellent efforts, but its your life and your call....

[supersonic]

So, if you resemble someone who just robbed a bank across town & they take you in and book you on suspicion that you are the perp what does that mean? I don't see how that (mistaken identity + your exoneration), which is being arrested &charged for a criminal act, then released when found to be guilty of no charges could cause you to lose your job!?!? That makes ZERO sense, IMHO. Get a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinion. Get ahold of the company you work for and/or the union.

[movie zombie]

i'm amazed at how well you conducted yourself while the situation as going down and then after with your follow up. you've given a good representation of what responsible gunownership is about. you've done more than most....even here at calguns....re open carry: if you decide not to jeopardize your job it is understandable. however, it does sound like there a lot of calgunners in the area and perhaps one of them will carry on the 'tradition'.

movie zombie

[razorx]

Understandable given the below statement:

"H. Adverse Actions On Accreditation

Accreditation may be denied or suspended by the local EMS agency. If an EMT-P does not maintain current licensure or meet local accreditation requirements, accreditation can be suspended until such time that the deficiencies are completed and documented to the localEMS agency. Suspension of accreditation privileges means that the EMT-P cannot work in either the basic or optional scope of practice in that local EMS agency jurisdiction."

Though the "intent" seems to be focused on localized and applicable skill set assurance, there seems to be a certain latitude here.

"(f) The local EMS Agency may deny, suspend, or revoke the approval of an EMT-II
service provider for failure to comply with applicable policies, procedures, and
regulations."

The steward is probably exaggerating just a touch to keep you out of potential trouble but who knows what local policies there are for you in that area?

You have already done more than almost all of us, but it is your life, you make the call.

[myxd45]

bad *** mother flucker

SNAFU

After finding out it was legal to open carry my unloaded handgun last night I decided to go ahead and do it.

Went out last night after confirming with the watch commander from Manteca PD that there were no city law/rules against open carry.

Went to the gas station in town, no problems, everyone nice... I also went to pack n save, same thing no problems... then off to In n Out. No problems.

Today I went off to Target to get some stuff, on my way out an off duty police officer called 911 and I was met by a very nice Manteca PD officer as I was about to get into my truck.

He asked if I had a badge and I told him no Im a paramedic.

I spoke with him and advised him that my gun was unloaded but my magazines weren't. The off duty officer came buy and told me that I was carrying a loaded weapon and I told him no I wasn't. He said a gun and ammo within close proximity ie arms reach was considered loaded. He said that if the on duty officer wouldnt arrest me that he would.

I advised / showed him the 12031 (g) law that states a firearm is considered loaded with bullet in chamber or magazine attached to gun etc etc... he stated that case law is superior to the PC. I then told him about People V Clark and he said that their was newer case law that said just having it on your person or in vicinity constitues loaded. He couldnt tell me when it was exactly or the case. That he knew more about the law than I did, that he wouldnt tell me how to do my job not to tell him how to do his. So I just kept quiet and didnt argue.

Showed the initial officer the Open Carry flyer http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf that had the PC in it.

By then two more senior officers showed up saying that they should arrest me and said the same stuff about magazines in the vicinity or arms reach and that he should just arrest me and let the DA decide etc.

One of them was really pissed said this isnt the old west, that I was just looking to get killed or a fight. That the only people that should have guns were cops and that he didnt even want to have his. I was told to get a taser. etc etc... None of them in up to 20yrs of police work ever had this happen.

The off duty officer explained to me that he knows I have a right to defend myself but that I was just asking for trouble.

What if a rookie cop came up to me drew down on me or killed me. I didnt really respond to that because I am not trying to antagonistic

I told all of them that I went through Manteca PD CCW process and SJCo Sherrifs and was denied for lack of good cause. That I just found out yesterday that it was legal to open carry unloaded up until last night I carried my X26c taser. They said they would rather use that than a firearm.

Eventually the old timers calmed down... the initial officer called his Sgt and the Sgt told him it wasnt illegal for me to carry like I did or have my ammunition like I did.

The initial officer said he was going to file an incident report just saying that he talked with me about it.

Returned my firearm and I went about my buisness.

Might just go back to my taser. Not sure.

Funny how the only person/people in two days and 100 people seeing me open carry that had a problem was an off duty police officer and the old timers that showed up after the iniital officer contacted me.

If anyone passes this info along to Manteca PD and it reaches the initial on duty officer please thank him for me for his professionalism and good attitude.

[ViPER395]

Hey 4th, i'll tell you how I read this..

Your friend at work does not want you open carrying.

I would consider talking to an attorney. I don't see how you could lose ANYTHING for being only arrested and booked, as there is no proof of anything. How would they even know?

I was talking with a friend of mine at work a little bit ago... He is the union shop steward and he told me that just being arrested and booked for a criminal offense will cost you your medic / emt cet. You dont even have to be convicted. Being a paramedic is all I know and I cant risk losing that... so I guess this is the end of my open carrying. I was willing sacrifice a certain portion of my life to either bring about change and awareness because in the end there was a high probability of me winning in court and not going to jail. Yes it would have cost me a lot of my saving in lawyer fees and possible jail time till bail was made but I always figured I would still have the ability of employment and life after the fact.

So from now on I will be promoting change with letters and flyers to police departments. Hopefully something will change for California and lawful gun owners.

[4thSeal]

I have a call into the CA EMS Agency to verify... my friend is very pro gun, granted he doesnt want me to get into trouble...

So for now im gonna hold off till i get offical confirmation.

My father works at LLNL and its the same thing for him... if he gets arrested he must report it, and depending on what its for wether he is convicted or not could mean his security clearance and job.

[ViPER395]

My father works at LLNL and its the same thing for him... if he gets arrested he must report it, and depending on what its for wether he is convicted or not could mean his security clearance and job.

How disgusting.

That is almost as intrusive and unconstitutional as employee drug tests.

[retired]

4th Seal, good job and congratulations for keeping your cool when speaking with the officers.

Shame on the the two officers for saying what they did and not knowing what they should. The dept. definitely needs to do some in house training.

MudCamper, I have a question about a particular section on the second page of your open carry flyer. Is the below merely a typo or am I incorrect.

It even went so far as to point out as an example of what
is not loaded to include shells attached to a shotgun inside a buttsock shell carrier.

Should this be buttstock or is there such a thing as a buttsock and I'm just not aware of it. I surmise a typo, but want to be sure. I'd hate to try to explain what a buttsock was to someone if there is no such thing. Thanks.

Edited to correct my typo of "type."

[Glock30]

wow, very nice! I'm going to discuss this with the Sheriffs at my local range and see what they think about me doing open carry. Although I would probably have to wear my work clothes all the damn times since I still look very young.

And one more thing. Where it says in the document: "Legally able to carry or transport firearms" is that just the everyday citizen with no felonies or rap sheet?

[Matt C]

I don't see how you could lose ANYTHING for being only arrested and booked, as there is no proof of anything. How would they even know?

Lost my clearance when I got arrested, still don't know if I will get it back. Luckily working for the .gov is not the only thing I know. They know because the FBI knows when you get booked, and they flag your clearance and notify whomever requested it for you. Usually it's just a suspension until the matter is resolved, but even getting that cleared up is an exercise in fighting bureaucracy.

[Soldier415]

is there such a thing as a buttsock and I'm just not aware of it. I surmise a type, but want to be sure. I'd hate to try to explain what a buttsock was to someone if there is no such thing. Thanks.

The Buttsock is what the Chief puts over his little "Sailor" before going over to 45David's place for the evening...