2017 AR pistol thread (master)

[Cokebottle]

Coke bottle: Regarding my threaded barrel question: by fixed magazine, you mean fitted with a bullet button?

Threaded barrel on an AR pistol is irrelevant regardless of the configuration because the magazine attaching outside of the pistol grip is an evil feature.

A bullet button is no longer an acceptable compliance device, so a bullet button would mean NOT a fixed magazine.


So once more:

If the AR pistol has a fixed magazine, it is not an AW, so the features don't matter.
If it doesn't have a fixed magazine, it IS an AW, so no other features matter.

There is not now, and never has been a reason to pin and weld the muzzle device on an AR pistol. The *ONLY* reason to pin and weld a muzzle device is to meet the NFA minimum barrel length of 16" for a rifle, or to meet the California minimum 30" OAL for a SACF rifle.

[805local]

So Im probably beating a dead horse by now but....one more time.

This is how I have interpreted the laws to make a AR Pistol legal in CA.

Buy 80% lower.....mill it out.

Build your AR pistol as a single-shot weapon from the start.

Keep documentation that you built your AR pistol as a single-shot weapon. (then convert it to semi auto after you have finished the build)

Build your AR pistol with a fixed magazine.

Serialize your 80% lower before July 1st, 2018 (not doj serial)

Bam!! That should be it right? Or am I missing anything?

Any info would help! Sorry for asking again, but this stuff is confusing.


REFERENCE LINK https://www.80-lower.com/blogs/80-lo...r-pistol-in-ca

[emgee00]

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[captainsavaho]

Or Disassembled,locked/stored and NEVER
Reassemble in California?

Any Caliber even 22lr (Pistol) say GSG 522pk

Anyone?

[Cokebottle]

Serialize your 80% lower before July 1st, 2018 (not doj serial)

And vol-reg.

80% is omitting this part, and at the time when wrote their guide, it was less clear, but the law does require the firearm to be listed in a centralized database and not merely engraved.

Also, the engraving must be to BATFE specs, meaning that it includes your name (first and last), city of manufacture, model, caliber, and serial number.

There's also the pesky issue of California requiring the serial number be engraved on a 3.7oz stainless plate that the frame was manufactured with.
Honestly, IMHO, it is not legally possible to possess a polymer frame built from an 80% after Jan 1 2019 because of this requirement.

[Cokebottle]

Or Disassembled,locked/stored and NEVER
Reassemble in California?

Any Caliber even 22lr (Pistol) say GSG 522pk

Anyone?

This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've posted this.


To exactly what are you referring? What are you asking?
Yes, you may disassemble the gun, rendering the frame "not semiautomatic".
Yes, assault weapon regulations apply to rimfire pistols.

[Califpatriot]

Some pretty smart people here have opined that the conversion from single shot to semiauto would now be considered a continuation of "manufacturing" and no longer considered to be "modification"

This may be a dumb question, but why not just do that in Arizona or Nevada or Oregon?

For example, let's say it's July 2018. You:

1. Get a DOJ serial number.
2. Get it engraved with said serial number.
3. Mill out the lower (in California.)
4. Take a trip to Vegas with your milled but stripped lower. In Vegas, you buy (or bring with you) a pistol upper, an LPK, mag and a fixed mag compliance solution, and assemble it all there.
5. Drive back to California.

32000 says: "(a) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year."

So, you didn't manufacture it in California. You also didn't import it into the state for sale (presumably, for personal use.) You didn't buy a firearm out of state. So is there anything wrong with this scenario?

[Cokebottle]

This may be a dumb question, but why not just do that in Arizona or Nevada or Oregon?

So, you didn't manufacture it in California. You also didn't import it into the state for sale (presumably, for personal use.) You didn't buy a firearm out of state. So is there anything wrong with this scenario?

Makes sense.
As long as it is established as a "firearm" before you leave CA, then you did not acquire it in another state.
You would not be able to legally mill the lower out of state.

[Califpatriot]

Makes sense.
As long as it is established as a "firearm" before you leave CA, then you did not acquire it in another state.
You would not be able to legally mill the lower out of state.

Probably would be a good idea to record and securely store a video of yourself (a) milling it in California; and (b) assembling it from a stripped lower into a fully built, fixed mag, semi-automatic pistol in Stateline, Nevada.

[Quiet]

This may be a dumb question, but why not just do that in Arizona or Nevada or Oregon?

For example, let's say it's July 2018. You:

1. Get a DOJ serial number.
2. Get it engraved with said serial number.
3. Mill out the lower (in California.)
4. Take a trip to Vegas with your milled but stripped lower. In Vegas, you buy (or bring with you) a pistol upper, an LPK, mag and a fixed mag compliance solution, and assemble it all there.
5. Drive back to California.

32000 says: "(a) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year."

So, you didn't manufacture it in California. You also didn't import it into the state for sale (presumably, for personal use.) You didn't buy a firearm out of state. So is there anything wrong with this scenario?

Federal laws prohibits a non-FFL from acquiring a firearm in another State unless a FFL it utilized. [18 USC 922(a)(3)]
^Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

CA laws requires a CA resident that acquires a firearm in another State to import that firearm into CA using a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(a)]
^Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates a misdemeanor per long gun and a felony per handgun. [PC 27590(a)&(c)(7)]

In order for a CA resident to legally make a firearm in another State and bring it to CA:
1. An out-of-state 07-FFL must be utilized.
2. After the firearm is made, the 07-FFL will mark it with their information.
3. Afterwards, the firearm must be shipped to a CA FFL dealer.
4. That CA FFL dealer will then transfer the firearm to the CA resident.

The firearm must be CA legal (not considered a prohibited weapon) and if the firearm is a handgun, then it must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, LEO sale, OTP, SAE, SSE2).

[zeroman03]

Federal laws prohibits a non-FFL from acquiring a firearm in another State unless a FFL it utilized. [18 USC 922(a)(3)]
^Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

CA laws requires a CA resident that acquires a firearm in another State to import that firearm into CA using a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(a)]
^Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates a misdemeanor per long gun and a felony per handgun. [PC 27590(a)&(c)(7)]

In order for a CA resident to legally make a firearm in another State and bring it to CA:
1. An out-of-state 07-FFL must be utilized.
2. After the firearm is made, the 07-FFL will mark it with their information.
3. Afterwards, the firearm must be shipped to a CA FFL dealer.
4. That CA FFL dealer will then transfer the firearm to the CA resident.

The firearm must be CA legal (not considered a prohibited weapon) and if the firearm is a handgun, then it must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, LEO sale, OTP, SAE, SSE2).

I think Califpatriot was suggesting that if a person builds and registers a compliant single shot pistol in California, then travels out of state, adds a gas tube for SA function, then returns to California, such a person will not be manufacturing an unsafe handgun in California. In your opinion, with this method, wouldn't a person NOT be guilty of aquiring a firearm in another state, as the milling of the lower was done in California?

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[Quiet]

I think Califpatriot was suggesting that if a person builds and registers a compliant single shot pistol in California, then travels out of state, adds a gas tube for SA function, then returns to California, such a person will not be manufacturing an unsafe handgun in California. In your opinion, with this method, wouldn't a person NOT be guilty of aquiring a firearm in another state, as the milling of the lower was done in California?

Misunderstood, was going on if he made it out-of-state.

[CommieforniaResident]

I think Califpatriot was suggesting that if a person builds and registers a compliant single shot pistol in California, then travels out of state, adds a gas tube for SA function, then returns to California, such a person will not be manufacturing an unsafe handgun in California. In your opinion, with this method, wouldn't a person NOT be guilty of aquiring a firearm in another state, as the milling of the lower was done in California?

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I read it as creating a stripped lower in California from an 80% and making it into a complete lower in Nevada, then making it in Nevada a semi-auto, to then bring back into California. Would that be a different situation?

[zeroman03]

I read it as creating a stripped lower in California from an 80% and making it into a complete lower in Nevada, then making it in Nevada a semi-auto, to then bring back into California. Would that be a different situation?

Yeah, after reading it once more it does sound like that is what he was suggesting.

However, and I ask to be corrected if i'm wrong, stripped lowers cannot be registered as a "pistol," in California. My understanding is that in order for a firearm to meet the requirements for exceptions under PC 32100, it must be a functioning and dimensionally compliant break top or bolt action single shot pistol.

Unfortunately, now with AB-857 going into effect, all 80 percent lowers must one way or another be registered with the DOJ. Therefore, I cannot see how someone could mill out an 80 percent lower, take it out of state to complete the assembly of a SA pistol, and then return to California without running into the same setbacks as just converting while here.

I think this method is definitely more bound to getting someone in trouble, such as Quiet suggested.

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[805local]

And vol-reg.

80% is omitting this part, and at the time when wrote their guide, it was less clear, but the law does require the firearm to be listed in a centralized database and not merely engraved.

Also, the engraving must be to BATFE specs, meaning that it includes your name (first and last), city of manufacture, model, caliber, and serial number.

There's also the pesky issue of California requiring the serial number be engraved on a 3.7oz stainless plate that the frame was manufactured with.
Honestly, IMHO, it is not legally possible to possess a polymer frame built from an 80% after Jan 1 2019 because of this requirement.

So I have to vol reg all my 80% I milled out (before July) myself and send in my own serial to the doj? So no more ghost guns at all?

If so...how do i register it as a legal pistol then?