San Bernardino

[Chaun]

Alright sounds good, I'll have my phone handy in case he does come by to chat on Ring. Thanks!

[Cokebottle]

Cokebottle - for the neighborhood check are they coming to my house as well or just talking to my neighbors? My wife and I are not home during the days as we work. I guess I can chat using my Ring if so...

Cokebottle probably has more current info, but for mine the detective went to three neighbors but not to my own house.

Mine was funny.
Now, keep in mind that I've lived here since 1994, so there's a solid record with the assessor's office that I live here and only here....

He came to the door and chatted with my wife very quickly... Our HOA was having the lot repaved, so he got stuck parking in a fire lane and he was worried that they would tow him (a marked unit? ), so he left a couple of business cards with my wife and asked her to have a couple of neighbors contact him.

I gave one to one of the other HOA members, and gave the other to the lady across the walkway who I had given video footage of a porch pirate stealing her stuff.
Honestly, I think he was just extremely busy and didn't feel the need to actually talk to anyone given my history here, and just needed the neighbor's to complete his forms.

[pink_toaster]

They never came to our door for either me or hubby. We aren't home during the day, but we have cameras. I have no idea if they talked to our neighbors or not.

[Grouch729]

They talked to my neighbor and he was told that it was for a CCW and when they were all done the detective told my neighbor your neighbor owes you a beer. Lol.


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[Quiet]

- for the neighborhood check are they coming to my house as well or just talking to my neighbors? My wife and I are not home during the days as we work. I guess I can chat using my Ring if so...

For mine...

A plainclothes (polo and jeans, badge & sidearm on belt) deputy knocked on my door, which I answered. The deputy then asked me where my apartment manager was located and then left.

A few weeks later, was talking with my apartment manager about renovations they were doing to the parking lot and she mentioned a deputy contacted her saying he was conducting a non-criminal background check & asked how long I had lived at the apartment complex & what type of tenant I was. She then asked me, what type of job did I apply for at the county.

[kennyd1gital]

No Red Dots on CCW in SBC?

So I finally had my CCW class on Saturday and all was great until I stepped up to the 5 yard line with my three handguns, ready to shoot the qualification stages. First up was my G43. A nearby deputy, spotting my G43, asked me who I knew. I replied, telling him I paid the CA premium in a PPT, which was also the case with the other two firearms I was going to qual with that day. That's when everything began to unravel. He looked down at my case and spotted my G19 Gen 5 MOS with RMR. He immediately informed me that he could not allow me to qual with the G19 because red dot sights are not authorized by the department. My range card was taken and my G19 crossed off the card. This all occurred after another deputy had inspected all three firearms, commented on how nice my RMR setup was, and signed off on all three before qualification began.

After a somewhat lengthy discussion on the advantages of using a red dot sight with the deputy who informed me I wouldn't be qualifying with my G19, I was informed that due to the [condensed] complexity of the addition of a red dot sight, the department doesn't allow the deputies to have them and therefore the CCW holders aren't allowed either, since they're required to conform to department regulations. That makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that he was the only deputy I talked to that day that said this; none of the other deputies I had talked to about it were aware of such a department regulation, including the deputy who inspected and function-checked my firearms (as a matter of fact, he told me he's seen people qual with red dots in the past with no issues).

I didn't have the tools with me to remove the RMR, nor did I have the cover plate that goes on the slide in place of the RMR, so I didn't bother to ask if I could just take it off and qual with my G19 anyway. I did, however, ask if I could have a modification done to my CCW prior to renewal to add a third firearm because no where (and I mean NO WHERE) in all the research I did before (and now after) the CCW class, did I see anything stating red dot sights were not authorized (and actually, the deputy who told me they weren't allowed admitted that it wasn't listed anywhere in writing). He told me he would have considered the early modification, had I only had one other firearm, but because I had two other firearms to qual with, I didn't need a third and would not be granted the modification.

So now I would like to know... Has anyone else experienced this? Have any of you successfully qualified with a red dot sight?

[Cokebottle]

So now I would like to know... Has anyone else experienced this? Have any of you successfully qualified with a red dot sight?

It seems that there are some deputies who throw their own brand of FUD into both the training classes and qualification that is NOT documented departmental policy.
One deputy teaching a renewal class in Hesperia specifically contradicted my instruction from the Captain who WROTE the curriculum. There were further contradictions to my original training in my renewal class at HQ.

The only thing you can do is go to the detective who handled your background investigation, relate the situation (particularly that the gun had already cleared inspection), and ask for a modification.
The county absolutely does NOT have a requirement that CCW guns meet the same standards as the department, and the Captain who taught my class in 2016 did in fact have an RMR on his duty weapon. He was undecided on whether he liked it and would keep it, but he did have it.

[Mike350GT]

^ Hmm...wow. This is quite disconcerting. I have my renewal coming up in March. I'd like to replace 2 of my pistols with 2 that have RDS's. If it's really an issue, I wonder if you could make an argument to leave the RDS off and just use the back up irons? I too would like to know if anyone has successfully qualified with an RDS. Any suggestions on how to proceed moving forward?

[tnlrat37]

I too had my initial class with Capt. M, and he did have his RMR on his Glock, I even mentioned it in class as well. He said anything that helps you get on target was fine with him, just no aftermarket trigger jobs.

[Mike350GT]

Sounds like there simply is no consistency. I qualified with an Apex trigger on my shield, not a word from any of the deputies.

[kennyd1gital]

It seems that there are some deputies who throw their own brand of FUD into both the training classes and qualification that is NOT documented departmental policy. ...
The only thing you can do is go to the detective who handled your background investigation, relate the situation (particularly that the gun had already cleared inspection), and ask for a modification.
The county absolutely does NOT have a requirement that CCW guns meet the same standards as the department, and the Captain who taught my class in 2016 did in fact have an RMR on his duty weapon. He was undecided on whether he liked it and would keep it, but he did have it.

Thank you for that; very useful information. I had suspected that might be the case, given none of the other deputies were aware of such a regulation.

I too had my initial class with Capt. M, and he did have his RMR on his Glock, I even mentioned it in class as well. He said anything that helps you get on target was fine with him, just no aftermarket trigger jobs.

That makes perfect sense, but the last part just goes to show that your experience will vary, depending on who you're talking to. I have an Overwatch Precision DAT trigger in my G43; the deputy doing the inspections asked about it, but signed off on it after I explained to him that it retains the stock trigger weight.

Sounds like there simply is no consistency. I qualified with an Apex trigger on my shield, not a word from any of the deputies.

I was asked about my OP DAT trigger, but it was signed off on. -- Had I been on the other end of the firing line, I wouldn't be talking about any of this, because as I stated in my previous post, no other deputy was aware that RDSs were not authorized.

I understand your point of view, but if you read into defensive shooting cases, firearms that have been modified to improve accuracy (in turn, safety) are never an issue (at least not in any of the cases I've read about). I've only heard of modifications such as lightweight triggers (which in my opinion, makes a CCW firearm less safe) raise issue in a legal case.

[Mike350GT]

^ yah heard it, my point is, it seems there is no consistency during the weapons inspection and qualification practical. Which leads back to, how to proceed moving forward to qualify with an RDS mounted weapon?

[kennyd1gital]

^ yah heard it, my point is, it seems there is no consistency during the weapons inspection and qualification practical. Which leads back to, how to proceed moving forward to qualify with an RDS mounted weapon?

I'm going to attempt what Cokebottle suggested about contacting the detective who did my background, explaining the situation, and asking for a modification. I will report back here on what comes of that.

Also, some of the range officers (red shirts) who were inspecting weapons don't really know what they're looking at. After I was told I couldn't qual with the RMR, which one of the range officers was involved in, I pulled my second pistol out of my case and was practically jumped on by the RO telling me to "put that one away, you're not allowed to shoot that one!" I'm thinking, "uh... what? What now? What's wrong with this one?" Turns out, the RO didn't know what a red dot was, saw the orange dot on my front sight post, and thought that was it. Fortunately the deputy was right there and corrected her, otherwise I'd only have one firearm on my CCW right now.

[marcusrn]

Back in the day they used to have deputies who were shooters and trainers that knew pistols and revolvers. Not so much now.

[Mike350GT]

I'm going to attempt what Cokebottle suggested about contacting the detective who did my background, explaining the situation, and asking for a modification. I will report back here on what comes of that.

Also, some of the range officers (red shirts) who were inspecting weapons don't really know what they're looking at. After I was told I couldn't qual with the RMR, which one of the range officers was involved in, I pulled my second pistol out of my case and was practically jumped on by the RO telling me to "put that one away, you're not allowed to shoot that one!" I'm thinking, "uh... what? What now? What's wrong with this one?" Turns out, the RO didn't know what a red dot was, saw the orange dot on my front sight post, and thought that was it. Fortunately the deputy was right there and corrected her, otherwise I'd only have one firearm on my CCW right now.

Yes, please let us know what you find out. I guess, I'll also just prepare for the worse and bring my non-RDS pistols to the qualification "just in case".