San Bernardino

[Cokebottle]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe it's frowned upon to have an RMR on your carry gun...however, if you're qualifying and carrying without it, I think it should be fine. It can be used negatively against you in court. I'm pretty sure I overheard one of the LEO's on range day tell someone that they shouldn't have it.

My instructor had one on his gun and his only concern was reliability and concealability.

[pink_toaster]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe it's frowned upon to have an RMR on your carry gun...however, if you're qualifying and carrying without it, I think it should be fine. It can be used negatively against you in court. I'm pretty sure I overheard one of the LEO's on range day tell someone that they shouldn't have it.

Well I'm not planning on spending the money to get the slide milled, buy an RMR and then not have it on the gun!?

I do plan on having back up iron sights on it. (although I've read that in a situation where you actually have to pull the gun and use it, you're not usually using ANY sights... rather you are pointing and shooting on instinct due to the adrenaline.... you don't line up your sights all nice and pretty like you do at the range....)

[pink_toaster]

My instructor had one on his gun and his only concern was reliability and concealability.

ya.... i'm already looking at clothing differently! told my hubby I had to go shopping and get some flowy shirts!

[Cokebottle]

ya.... i'm already looking at clothing differently! told my hubby I had to go shopping and get some flowy shirts!

Darker colors help to reduce shadowing and the color showing through. Patterns help to break up the outline.

[Carlow202]

I don't disagree with you at all, what you choose to carry and especially how you choose to spend your money. I'm just relaying what I heard at qualifications last week. I have a couple pistols with RMRs on it that i would rather carry but instead I choose to carry stock with night sights at most.

Just heard stories about prosecutors using every bit of detail to convince a jury that a shooting was unjustified and that they were "looking to shoot someone", even as simple as some night sights, paint jobs, custom engravings, etc...

Take it for what its worth

Well I'm not planning on spending the money to get the slide milled, buy an RMR and then not have it on the gun!?

I do plan on having back up iron sights on it. (although I've read that in a situation where you actually have to pull the gun and use it, you're not usually using ANY sights... rather you are pointing and shooting on instinct due to the adrenaline.... you don't line up your sights all nice and pretty like you do at the range....)

[Cokebottle]

Just heard stories about prosecutors using every bit of detail to convince a jury that a shooting was unjustified and that they were "looking to shoot someone", even as simple as some night sights, paint jobs, custom engravings, etc...

These stories have floated around for years. Massad Ayoob has shared these stories as well.
When put on the spot, he has not been able to cite one court case where it made a difference in the outcome.
Some cited the case last year involving an AZ police officer who had a "You're F***ed" engraving on his AR dust cover, but the fact is that the engraving made zero difference in the case... it was ruled a "bad shoot" based on the evidence.
A good shoot is a good shoot and a bad shoot is a bad shoot. Nothing is going to change that unless you testify that "the gun went off" or "I didn't mean to shoot him".

These factors will come into play at the civil trial when the family goes after you. All your attorney needs to do is intelligently justify anything brought up. Modifications that enhance accuracy and reliability are encouraged by the instructors. They also strongly recommend that such work be performed by a qualified gunsmith. Obviously, maintenance items like recoil springs and magazine parts would not fall under that. Trigger work would.

In the end, the county is not responsible for our configuration, and is not liable for what we do while carrying. All legal responsibility lies 100% upon us. As long as your trigger work and modifications are "duty/carry" level, as opposed to "competition", you're good.

As far as things that show attitude, an engraving such as a "punisher" on an endplate or grips might make your attorney's job harder... best to avoid the drama that can be created by silly non-functional things.
RMR? That is a completely justified tool that enhances accuracy.

My advice to Pink Toaster would be to simply ask the instructor in class. She will get a straight answer from the instructor.

[WheelGunMagic]

Question for folks in the Victorville area: I was in the Hesperia Road branch of the Desert Community Bank the other day and noticed a no guns allowed sign posted on the door. It specifically included the bank lobby, the walk up ATM & the drive thro ATM. Its my understanding that such signs do not carry the weight of law, but you must leave if requested or risk a trespass charge. Does anyone know when DCB started posting their signs? Is this new since the Flagstar buy out? Or is this a common practice for banks that I've some how failed to notice before?

[Cokebottle]

I've not seen any at Wells Fargo or BofA
No experience with DCB

[morrcarr67]

Question for folks in the Victorville area: I was in the Hesperia Road branch of the Desert Community Bank the other day and noticed a no guns allowed sign posted on the door. It specifically included the bank lobby, the walk up ATM & the drive thro ATM. Its my understanding that such signs do not carry the weight of law, but you must leave if requested or risk a trespass charge. Does anyone know when DCB started posting their signs? Is this new since the Flagstar buy out? Or is this a common practice for banks that I've some how failed to notice before?

I bank with US Bank.

I tend to visit branches at the markets I shop. On the rare occasion that I need to go to my "branch" office I have not noticed any signs. AND, all of the branches local to me have metal detectors and one at a time locking doors that you must go through to get inside. Every time I go in I set off the metal detector. One of the tellers looks up at me, smiles and presses the button to let me in.

I personally don't look for signs saying "No Guns Allowed". I belt in my gun and go about my business. I used to be worried that someone was going notice that I was carrying and say something or worse call the local PD. No one seems to be looks at my big belly and just walks on by minding their own business.

[WheelGunMagic]

Thanks for the replies - I'm afraid I just don't get it tho. Since criminals tend to ignore the law, I doubt a sign will give them much reason to pause. The only sign I've seen recently that a bad guy might look twice at is the one on the door of my FFL - it reads "all employees are armed".

Its safer for both customers & employees if CCW holders are welcome, not only at banks, but in all business establishments. No offense to the private security guards at DCB, but I'm more comfortable with my ability to protect myself than with theirs.

Perhaps its time to switch banks - obviously DCB is no longer interested in my business. Or rather, I'm no longer interested in giving them my business.

[pink_toaster]

These stories have floated around for years. Massad Ayoob has shared these stories as well.
When put on the spot, he has not been able to cite one court case where it made a difference in the outcome.
Some cited the case last year involving an AZ police officer who had a "You're F***ed" engraving on his AR dust cover, but the fact is that the engraving made zero difference in the case... it was ruled a "bad shoot" based on the evidence.
A good shoot is a good shoot and a bad shoot is a bad shoot. Nothing is going to change that unless you testify that "the gun went off" or "I didn't mean to shoot him".

These factors will come into play at the civil trial when the family goes after you. All your attorney needs to do is intelligently justify anything brought up. Modifications that enhance accuracy and reliability are encouraged by the instructors. They also strongly recommend that such work be performed by a qualified gunsmith. Obviously, maintenance items like recoil springs and magazine parts would not fall under that. Trigger work would.

In the end, the county is not responsible for our configuration, and is not liable for what we do while carrying. All legal responsibility lies 100% upon us. As long as your trigger work and modifications are "duty/carry" level, as opposed to "competition", you're good.

As far as things that show attitude, an engraving such as a "punisher" on an endplate or grips might make your attorney's job harder... best to avoid the drama that can be created by silly non-functional things.
RMR? That is a completely justified tool that enhances accuracy.

My advice to Pink Toaster would be to simply ask the instructor in class. She will get a straight answer from the instructor.

I don't plan to put any of those "watch for the flash" or "you're blanked" on my guns.... the one with the RMR will have a pink slide and grips (it's gotta be cerakoted after the mill work... so why not pink!?

I also don't have the "guarded by smith and wesson"... or "we don't shoot warning shots" type signs at our house... partially because it does look bad IMO and it also advertised to people there are guns inside....

i hope there is no issue with the RMR cuz by the time i get to class and range day it's going to be too late! actually... it's already too late since i aleady sent the slide off to get milled! so i hope there's no issues come range day!

[Cokebottle]

i hope there is no issue with the RMR cuz by the time i get to class and range day it's going to be too late! actually... it's already too late since i aleady sent the slide off to get milled! so i hope there's no issues come range day!

I don't believe there will be any issues. It would not hurt to call and talk to the detective that interviewed you to be sure.

[Calif Hunter]

I have my interview on Friday. I should have everything I need - my wife has to stop by the Recorder's Office to get a copy of our marriage certificate today. That seems like an odd requirement since she does not shoot and will not be carrying a firearm. No firearms are in her name. Other than that, which should be obtained today, I have everything.

The only law enforcement contact was when we had an attempted break-in during December last year. No tickets in many years.

[Jeepergeo]

I have my interview on Friday. I should have everything I need - my wife has to stop by the Recorder's Office to get a copy of our marriage certificate today. That seems like an odd requirement since she does not shoot and will not be carrying a firearm. No firearms are in her name. Other than that, which should be obtained today, I have everything.

The only law enforcement contact was when we had an attempted break-in during December last year. No tickets in many years.

Good luck. It will likely be pretty uneventful if you are prepared, as it should be.

And thanks for applying. The more CCW holders in this county the better. We are fortunate to have the Sheriff that we have.

[Calif Hunter]

I have the PO money orders. Do I fill it out simply SBSD or the full name San Bernardino Sheriff's Department? The instructions look like SBSD is sufficient.