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  • #46
    BadKitty
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2011
    • 1409

    Originally posted by Spyguy
    Btw, my 7yo daughter is as upset about the 10 day jail time as the rest of us.

    LOL!!!! I love it!!


    Look, I've stated my position on pink guns before and I'll say it again: I really don't have an issue with women who want to have non-traditionally colored guns. I think some paint jobs look tacky and I think some look nice. To each her own. I am not against the color pink. I like pink just fine.


    I was a social scientist in a previous career and I think the "issue" here is not so much the color of pink as it is the meanings we assign to it. The secondary issue is the meanings that some MEN assign to the color pink when it comes to firearms. Just look back over this very thread and note the comments made by other posters: three or so people made comments about pink in reference to being the color of choice for their children or young girls they know and three men made comments about wanting pink firearms to dissuade other men from shooting their weapon. Those comments assign "weakness" to the color pink. The same goes for all of the husbands who have come to this Ladies forum saying that his wife doesn't like guns and, if he buys her a pink one, do we think she'd end up liking guns enough to go shooting? Again, that relegates the color pink to being "weak", "non-agressive" and "non-offensive".


    Are you all following me on this?


    So, because of these various meanings, there are a couple different angles being taken. Women like Chickshooter object to the "girls are weak and need guns to be pink in order for us to make them like them" attitude of some men, gun shops and firearms manufacturers. Some women, like 2Cute2Shoot, promote pink as a statement of "darn right I'm a girl with a gun and what are you going to do about it?" They're both right in their own ways. What's happening is that 2Cute is not picking up on what Chickshooter is saying and Chickshooter is not picking up on what 2Cute is saying. They're really talking about two different things and, in a way, they're both promoting the empowerment of female shooters.


    Earlier 2Cute commented "I happen to know that if a young girl shows up to the shooting range for her very first time with her dad and it is all loud and leering old men, but then she sees a lady who is pretty and shooting a pink rifle, she will feel better...because that girl was me." I am a less-attractive woman and I shoot ugly, black guns. Yet, at my last visit to the range, I had two girls, about 10 and 12 years old, run up to me excited and ask if they can watch me shoot. It's not so much the beauty of the woman or the color of her firearm - I think simply being a female at the range in and of itself is the ticket to reaching out to girls and young women. Other things are just extra icing on the cake.


    MY TAKE: I personally dislike it when gun manufacturers decide to make a gun pink "for the little ladies". I don't like products like "lite" ammo colored pink because "the womenfolk might strain their wrists on the recoil." I find those products insulting to my intelligence and ability. If a gun manufacturer was truly interested in marketing gun colors to women, they would choose colors like purple and teal as well. But they don't - generally, they make pink and that's about it.


    I also dislike it when a man decides, without his lady's input, to buy her a pink gun for hopes she'll like it better than a "scary" black pistol. But, the truth is, there are some women who do need and want pink guns in order to feel less threatened. I think that's rather silly; but, if it gets her to the range, then, meh....whatever works. Edited to clarify: I'm not referring to women like 2Cute buying pink guns for themselves because they think pink is awesome. I'm referring to women who "need" a gun to be pink in order to consider shooting it.


    At the end of the day, I ride both sides on this issue because there's truth to both sides.



    BK
    Last edited by BadKitty; 09-22-2013, 10:46 AM.
    Meowr!

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    • #47
      movie zombie
      Cat-in-a Box/NRA Lifetime
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Jul 2007
      • 14644

      again, BK nails it.

      there is an article on the internet that I read re the Smith and Wesson model 3913 Lady Smith. guy loved the thing but had a problem with the world "lady" inscribed on it. some guys had it buffed out. why? the gun was a great gun marketed specifically to women, wasn't really much different than the regular 3913 but just enough so to make it "female" marketable. no pink. just the world "lady". that was enough to make it something the guys had a problem with. http://www.thegunzone.com/3913nl.html

      and I think Pink Pistols is using 'pink' politically in that at one time if a man wore pink it was assumed he was "homosexual". pink was the color for the ultra fem and/or the homosexual.

      again, BK nailed it.
      "The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt
      Originally posted by The Shootist
      Just use it for an excuse to keep buying "her" guns till you find the right one...good way to check off your wanted to buy list with the idea of finding her the one she wants of course :D

      Comment

      • #48
        Spyguy
        Calguns Addict
        • Apr 2009
        • 7378

        Originally posted by BadKitty
        The secondary issue is the meanings that some MEN assign to the color pink when it comes to firearms. Just look back over this very thread and note the comments made by other posters: three or so people made comments about pink in reference to being the color of choice for their children or young girls they know and three men made comments about wanting pink firearms to dissuade other men from shooting their weapon. Those comments assign "weakness" to the color pink.
        LOL... my daughter is not weak, nor did I buy her a pink rifle because I think she is weak (or that I want her to think of herself as weak). She is bright, articulate, polite, extremely sociable, and has a strong personality. She can be a bit of a tomboy at times, but most of the times she is a "girly" girl (which is the adolescent form of a "feminine" lady). And for that I am grateful because I'm one of those traditional "Neanderthals" that still believes a woman should be a woman, and not try in vain to try to prove she is a man.

        In short, I bought her a pink rifle simply because pink is her favorite color. If her favorite color was fire red, I would have tried to find her one in that color. Honestly, I had actually been contemplating making a pink laminated wood stock for my daughter's first 10/22 because I had no idea Ruger made such a stock. So I thank Ruger for making this fine product.
        Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

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        • #49
          Off the Roster
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2013
          • 2354

          When I make a post there are 2 things i truly value:

          People who disagree completely and make an intelligent statement as to why, and people who take the concept and add their experience(s) to it. I learn from both platforms. There have been many times in life, based on how something was presented to me in a new fashion, in a way i had never considered, that my stance turns 180 degrees because i have suddenly been educated better.

          I am very good at discerning when english is not someone's 1st language, and when a person has been failed by their school system, and neither means I cannot learn from them.

          I completely understand what 2cute2shoot has as her foundation to her views. But given her participation here, Bad Kitty's comment, and a quick perusal of her previous posts, i have written her off as not capable in exchanging ideas and therefore she is just random noise.

          I think that 10/22 with the pink stock is very nice and a very good gun, and skulls on a stock do have the potential to look bad A**.

          I deal a lot with new shooters - female new shooters, who are accustomed to buying things that don't have the capability to kill. Firearms are not fashion accessories period. In addition to my clients, new shooters come to Calguns forums for information. If a person has thought about it and decides pink is the way to go, that's their choice. Someone buying a gun just because it is pink where they would not otherwise purchase a firearm is a person who should not own a gun at that moment in time.

          People who are tired of this topic, or see it as pointless, or my views as fail you are welcome to your perspectives. What i see are nearly 800 views that have hopefully lead people to think.

          Allow me to clarify:
          pink DOES NOT equal weak
          pink DOES NOT equal sexual preference
          pink MIGHT equal cheaper in a re-sale
          and
          if "lite" ammo helps PEOPLE with compromised wrist strength defend themselves i'm ALL FOR IT.
          Last edited by Off the Roster; 09-22-2013, 5:54 PM.

          Comment

          • #50
            Spyguy
            Calguns Addict
            • Apr 2009
            • 7378

            Originally posted by Chickshooter
            I deal a lot with new shooters - female new shooters, who are accustomed to buying things that don't have the capability to kill. Firearms are not fashion accessories period.
            I agree 100% that a firearm is not a accessory for fashion's sake. In another thread, a guy commented that he thought it was "cool" that a late teen girl wanted to go to the range and shoot because she thought that "guys think it's sexy when a girl likes guns" (paraphrased). I stated that the girl had absolutely the wrong reasons for wanting to shoot.

            That said, there is nothing wrong with accessorizing and personalizing your firearms to match your own individual tastes. Some guys are into zombies, some are into Star Wars, and some are into My Little Ponies. If that makes them happy... but you will never find skulls, Storm Troopers, or Rainbow Dash on one of my rifles. Some are into FDE and camo colors. Me, I prefer black and OD, although one day I might build one that's anodized crimson red, cobalt blue, or emerald green just for the heck of it.

            For my daughter, my goal at this point in her life is to introduce her to the fun target shooting and develop her skills and safe handling of firearms. She's too young to be expected to defend herself with lethal force; that's MY job, at least until she gets quite a bit older. The pink stock is not to encourage her into a sport she would otherwise be adverse to, nor is it to resemble a toy. It's just something to make the rifle personally hers, like her pink bike. And I hope she will keep it all her life and remember it as the first firearm "daddy" bought for her. Perhaps one day she will pass it on to her daughter and it will become a family heirloom.

            I'm not sure what you mean by "buying things that don't have the capability to kill". All firearms are lethal, even a 22LR fired from a pink rifle. Or are you talking about non-lethal substitute defensive tools like pepper spray?
            Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

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            • #51
              sharxbyte
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2010
              • 2448

              Originally posted by Foresight88
              As long as one practices safety with their firearms I don't think it's any concern of mine what color they choose. This day and age I believe we need more people interested in exercising their second amendment rights responsibly and I think bringing more women into the art of protection is an excellent way of doing so.

              As for the fashion accessory thing, I respectfully disagree. I know I like to sport my FDE firearms when I am in the desert, and those in OD when I am in the mountains. I know a lady or two who live in Free America that sport pink accents on their daily carries (and purple too). To each their own as long as they practice proper handgun safety.

              Quoted for truth.


              The whole reason we opposed the airsoft/airgun painting bills is because its stupid to assume that something is a toy because of its color.
              My AR is 7.62x39, so that if/when we get invaded, I can shoot their ammo back at them!
              sigpic

              Originally posted by Falstaff
              Where is this ammo "Black market" he speaks of? Do they have .223 in stock?
              My Home-Made Recurve Bow Thread


              Own An 80%? CLICK HERE!


              Kevin de Leon, on minority women and profiling.

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              • #52
                Off the Roster
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2013
                • 2354

                Originally posted by Spyguy
                I'm not sure what you mean by "buying things that don't have the capability to kill".

                High Heels & Handbags

                Comment

                • #53
                  Spyguy
                  Calguns Addict
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 7378

                  Originally posted by Chickshooter
                  High Heels & Handbags
                  Oh, do you mean like this:

                  University of Houston Professor Stabbed to Death With Stiletto Heel

                  Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    BadKitty
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1409

                    Originally posted by Spyguy
                    LOL... my daughter is not weak, nor did I buy her a pink rifle because I think she is weak (or that I want her to think of herself as weak). She is bright, articulate, polite, extremely sociable, and has a strong personality. She can be a bit of a tomboy at times, but most of the times she is a "girly" girl (which is the adolescent form of a "feminine" lady). And for that I am grateful because I'm one of those traditional "Neanderthals" that still believes a woman should be a woman, and not try in vain to try to prove she is a man.

                    In short, I bought her a pink rifle simply because pink is her favorite color. If her favorite color was fire red, I would have tried to find her one in that color. Honestly, I had actually been contemplating making a pink laminated wood stock for my daughter's first 10/22 because I had no idea Ruger made such a stock. So I thank Ruger for making this fine product.

                    Spyguy,


                    I think you may have read too deeply or personally into my post. I did not make any statement about your 7-year old daughter's intelligence, sociability, strength or personality.


                    If a 45 year old man were to ask you for a rifle recommendation and you replied saying "Well, I bought my 7-year old daughter a pink .22lr rifle and she loves it - you should look into it!" What do you think his reaction would be? Would a middle-aged man want to buy the same rifle beloved by a 7-year old girl? Probably not. That's because society places meaning on things like that. By society's standards, is a pink .22lr rifle "acceptable" for a 7 year old girl? Yes. For a 45 year old man? No. Is a 7-year old girl "weak" for having one? No. A 45 year old man? Yes. (Yes, he is going to get clowned at the range for shooting it.)


                    You are not a bad father for buying her one nor did I ever state or imply that you bought her one because she is weak. That is precisely my point. Social customs dictate that pink things are associated with, and acceptable for, little girls. 30-year old wives are not little girls and should not have to be enticed with pink guns.


                    BK
                    Meowr!

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                    • #55
                      Off the Roster
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 2354

                      Originally posted by BadKitty
                      30 year old wives are not little girls and should not have to be enticed with pink guns.
                      BK


                      BINGO!!!

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                      • #56
                        Off the Roster
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 2354

                        Originally posted by Spyguy
                        I think "girlfriend" is code for escort. Those university reproductive health research doctors can have a very skewed perspective on women and sex.


                        ps. i am giving you a get-out-of-jail free card on your knowledge of "Rainbow Dash" based on the fact that i know you have a daughter.
                        Last edited by Off the Roster; 09-22-2013, 5:43 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Spyguy
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Apr 2009
                          • 7378

                          Originally posted by Chickshooter
                          I think "girlfriend" is code for escort. Those university reproductive health research doctors can have a very skewed perspective on women and sex.
                          I agree with you about university professors, particularly in the modern-version of what passes for "liberal arts." But if that woman was charging for her services, he was either blind or shopping the clearance aisle. Hookers of Wal-Mart perhaps?

                          Originally posted by Chickshooter
                          ps. i am giving you a get-out-of-jail free card on your knowledge of "Rainbow Dash" based on the fact that i know you have a daughter.
                          LOL... I was wondering if someone was going to try to call me on that. The sad thing is I had heard of "Rainbox Dash" here on CalGuns long before my daughter started watching MLP. For some inexplicable reason, there are quite a few "bronie" boys in this forum. Our society has become completely dyslexic: it's the men whom are being conditioned by the schools and media to be weak and feminine, while our women are being conditioned to be strong and masculine.
                          Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

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                          • #58
                            Spyguy
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 7378

                            Originally posted by BadKitty
                            I think you may have read too deeply or personally into my post. I did not make any statement about your 7-year old daughter's intelligence, sociability, strength or personality.
                            You're correct: I did read a little too much into your post. I was focusing on your comment about little girls and weakness in the color pink. But my reply wasn't directed specifically at you, and I didn't mean to imply that you were criticizing my daughter in any way. I was simply using my daughter as an example that, just because a girl likes pink, it doesn't mean she's weak. And IMO, that goes for 30yo wives too.

                            Anyway, it's all good and I've enjoyed the discussion.
                            Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals

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                            • #59
                              BadKitty
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1409

                              Originally posted by Spyguy
                              just because a girl likes pink, it doesn't mean she's weak. And IMO, that goes for 30yo wives too.

                              Yeah...I can wear pink and still kick your @$#.


                              Anyway, it's all good and I've enjoyed the discussion.



                              BK
                              Meowr!

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                              • #60
                                Off the Roster
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2013
                                • 2354

                                wow that was a long road...thank goodness we are all now talking concept and not personal affront!

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