Pima Co DA clears PCSD Entry Team

[sawchain]

Sorry, anyone that points a firearm at me with what appears to be the intent to use it against my person just forfeited their life, regardless of the circumstance leading up to the encounter. Have a nice day

Sorry, I just don't think that's reasonable. When you bust down someone's door, you shouldn't be surprised to find them holding a firearm on the other side. I just don't think it's wise policy to play blind-pistol-dueling for either the LEO's sake OR for the citizen's sake. The risk of misunderstanding and the unfortunate outcome that may result is too costly.

IMO (and I know you probably don't agree) the Jose Guerena situation demonstrates poor judgment by the warranting judge, the department and the individual officers. Sending a SWAT team to execute a search warrant for a controlled substance offense is a gross misapplication of force.

[sawchain]

+1.

Also people need to remember, he raised an AR15 at the Officers on scene in the hall way. He also had stolen guns found in the house and he was an ex' Marine. In my book, justified.

I've seen this stated numerous times. Where is the evidence? Will you cite it please? If there's proof he did that, I'd love to see it.

[jeep7081]

I've seen this stated numerous times. Where is the evidence? Will you cite it please? If there's proof he did that, I'd love to see it.

Read the whole artice like I did! Click on all the links. I did...It's in there

Sorry, I just don't think that's reasonable. When you bust down someone's door, you shouldn't be surprised to find them holding a firearm on the other side. I just don't think it's wise policy to play blind-pistol-dueling for either the LEO's sake OR for the citizen's sake. The risk of misunderstanding and the unfortunate outcome that may result is too costly.

IMO (and I know you probably don't agree) the Jose Guerena situation demonstrates poor judgment by the warranting judge, the department and the individual officers. Sending a SWAT team to execute a search warrant for a controlled substance offense is a gross misapplication of force.

Do you normally walk around your house with a AR15? I don't.

He also had illegal firearms in the house. They also found body armor in the garage. Mix that with him being a former Marine. This isn't your average Joe, and not your average search warrant. Sorry, I agree with IrishJoe.

[sawchain]

Read the whole artice like I did! Click on all the links. I did...It's in there



Do you normally walk around your house with a AR15? I don't.

He also had illegal firearms in the house. They also found body armor in the garage. Mix that with him being a former Marine. This isn't your average Joe, and not your average search warrant. Sorry, I agree with IrishJoe.

Please, cite the evidence that he pointed it at officers. I don't think there is any. Prove me wrong. Please!

[sawchain]

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14838574/entire-swat-team-says-guerena-fired-at-them

He said, "…as soon as I saw the male suspect come from that direction he yelled something. At that point I began firing my weapon at the suspect."

On closer questioning, that officer told detectives, "…whether at that point he actually had raised the rifle up...I couldn't..."

The interview was conducted via audio, with no video, but the officer was making gestures at the time. The investigating detective described those gestures out loud for the benefit of anyone who might need to listen to the recording. "You're making a motion like he's bringing a rifle up on you," the detective said.

The rifleman then answered, "Absolutely, absolutely."

In other words, the SWAT member who opened fire is describing to the detective who is debriefing him, with gestures, his observation that Guerena had begun to swing his weapon in the direction of the SWAT team members.

The SWAT member holding the shield at the door said he saw a muzzle flash. The detective asks: "Where was the muzzle flash?"

The shield holder replies: "Directed right towards us."

One of the team assigned to break open the door says, "They were coming from basically, the front door, but directly straight back from the front door."

"I'm seeing the muzzle, from the muzzle flash from inside the house, coming, you know, towards us."

The other officer assigned to break open the door turned away as the door swung open.

The detective asks: "So at that point you breached the door, you turned around, you turned around you're facing the team and the gunfire is coming at your back from...."

Breacher#2: "Yes."

Detective: "Inside the house?"

Breacher#2: "Yes."

And the team commander says, "Immediately I saw a muzzle flash and gunfire or heard gunfire." he went on to say that Guerena "Raised the rifle and pointed it towards us and fired multiple times."

Are you relying on this testimony?

[IrishJoe3]

Sorry, I just don't think that's reasonable. ….

IMO (and I know you probably don't agree) the Jose Guerena situation demonstrates poor judgment by the warranting judge, the department and the individual officers.

I don’t agree with you, but that’s the great thing about it, we’re all entitled to our own opinion.

Please, cite the evidence that he pointed it at officers. I don't think there is any. Prove me wrong. Please!

So....you're willing to accept the Sheriff Departments statement that the AR15 was on "safe", but unwilling to accept their statement that he pointed the rifle at them. You can't pick and choose which facts are the most convient to you.

Additionally, I did read in the DA’s (?) report that they determined the rifle was pointed at the deputies based on the angle of impact marks of the rounds on Mr. Guerena’s weapon.

[Ron-Solo]

How about don't shoot him?

[sawchain]

Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can find it.

[TRICKSTER]

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14901255/pima-county-attorney-sides-with-swat

"A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers."

Riddle me this, how is it that a "highly trained" Marine doesn't have enough sense to use cover and concealment until he knows who is coming in the door, and then seeing it's the police, doesn't leave his weapon in the hallway before emerging into the open. Either he isn't the highly trained Marine that everyone claims or he meant to confront the officers.

[sawchain]

Riddle me this, how is it that a "highly trained" Marine doesn't have enough sense to use cover and concealment until he knows who is coming in the door, and then seeing it's the police, doesn't leave his weapon in the hallway before emerging into the open. Either he isn't the highly trained Marine that everyone claims or he meant to confront the officers.

It's presumptive to think he ever knew it was the police. Only about 32 seconds elapsed between the time they knocked/announced and shots were fired.

Further...wasn't a flashbang thrown in the door during that time? If he was flash banged how the hell could he hear or see anything? Let alone that the people busting down his door were police officers?

[sawchain]

My Google-fu is failing to find a copy of the original DA report. Anyone have it?

"A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers."

This sounds like supposition to me. There are other reasonable scenarios that might produce such damage, especially considering the volume and wildness of fire by the officers involved.

[TRICKSTER]

Further...wasn't a flashbang thrown in the door during that time? If he was flash banged how the hell could he hear or see anything? Let alone that the people busting down his door were police officers?

If this is the case, it adds even more to my question. Why would a "highly trained" Marine, who knows what a flashbang is, leave a position of cover and confront people that he cant see or hear? Everything that I have read on this case leans towards the conclusion that he knew exactly who it was, and for some reason, chose to confront them.

[jeep7081]

It's presumptive to think he ever knew it was the police. Only about 32 seconds elapsed between the time they knocked/announced and shots were fired.

Further...wasn't a flashbang thrown in the door during that time? If he was flash banged how the hell could he hear or see anything? Let alone that the people busting down his door were police officers?

If he can't see or hear. How did he grab the AR15? He already had it before hand and was ready for them Follow?

Please, cite the evidence that he pointed it at officers. I don't think there is any. Prove me wrong. Please!

Sorry, not your parent our your spouse. Your going to have to do your own leg work if you want the answer.

If this is the case, it adds even more to my question. Why would a "highly trained" Marine, who knows what a flashbang is, leave a position of cover and confront people that he cant see or hear? Everything that I have read on this case leans towards the conclusion that he knew exactly who it was, and for some reason, chose to confront them.

Agree 100%

[SVT-40]

Here is a link to a much better quality audio of the incident....

More that sufficient knock and notice in both English and Spanish.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/audio_ec593d68-88ea-11e0-a4e6-001cc4c03286.html

[jeep7081]

Here is a link to a much better quality audio of the incident....

More that sufficient knock and notice in both English and Spanish.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/audi...cc4c03286.html

I don't see a video. I guess I am missing some software to view? Arggg...