Pima Co DA clears PCSD Entry Team

[sawchain]

How could following him home and observing the house have changed anything?

They would have still needed to enter the house to search it. plus the service of the warrant had to be coordinated with the other warrants to prevent warnings and escapes

Why are you calling being involved in home invasions and drug rip-offs (the crime they were investigating) a non-violent crime?

Home invasions are indeed violent.

The affadavit in support of search warrant said absolutely nothing about home invasions or drug rip-offs. All it cited was that Jose had Saran wrap and had registered too many cars.

[9mmepiphany]

Unrealistic to approach every "noise outside" in this fashion.

Not every noise outside, just the one's that start out as described at the beginning of sawchain's post that I was replying to:

Jose's in bed. His wife sees men with guns out the window. She wakes him up telling him there are men with guns outside.

[TRICKSTER]

Home invasions are indeed violent.

The affadavit in support of search warrant said absolutely nothing about home invasions or drug rip-offs. All it cited was that Jose had Saran wrap and had registered too many cars.

No one said it did, but most of us here have read all of the articles/documents covering this case and viewed and listened to the video and audio files. This is something that you apparently haven't done, or if you have, you choose to conveniently ignore those that conflict with your point of view.
So if you have reviewed all the info, you are intentionally being deceptive. If you haven't you should review the info before you post again so you can at least appear somewhat informed on the subject. Until then, goodbye.

[sawchain]

No one said it did, but most of us here have read all of the articles/documents covering this case and viewed and listened to the video and audio files. This is something that you apparently haven't done, or if you have, you choose to conveniently ignore those that conflict with your point of view.
So if you have reviewed all the info, you are intentionally being deceptive. If you haven't you should review the info before you post again so you can at least appear somewhat informed on the subject. Until then, goodbye.

If you have information that justifies the approval of that search warrant for the Guerena residence, or the use of a SWAT team to investigate a nonviolent crime, you should present it.

If I'm being deceptive, present your evidence and discredit me. Otherwise your posts are mere harassment.

[jeep7081]

If you have information that justifies the approval of that search warrant for the Guerena residence, or the use of a SWAT team to investigate a nonviolent crime, you should present it.

If I'm being deceptive, present your evidence and discredit me. Otherwise your posts are mere harassment.

I don't want to get into your sword fight. But, the stolen guns he had wasn't enough? Just asking.

Maybe your missing the point. But from what I read. He was an 'ex Marine, there were stolen firearms, Which shows he was on the wrong side of the law, they found body armor to add. This will result in swat being called. Then to see once he hears sirens, he is "locked & loaded" in the hall way with an AR15, just proves whomever made that call to have swat there made the right call.

I'll also work your other scenario. You said if any of us heard something we would grab our weapon and do a meet & greet? Some said yes while others said no. For a knock at the door? Probably not. A pound on the door, at night? I might. Although there were sirens! You did hear them, no? So, let's say he didn't. Which I doubt. Once he walked down the hall way with his AR15, which is not a common weapon for a home owner to grab for a noise. The noise being a police siren none-the-less. Then he heard SEARCH WARRANTY CALLED OUT 9X (english & spanish)!!! Then the door come down, he should have dropped his AR15. Period! He didn't.

Read the search warrant, if you still defend him, you either know him, or your just here to cause trouble....Case closed.

http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20Document0582_000.pdf

[1911su16b870]

saw reads but fails to see. States they should have pulled him over in his car, but missed how when LE followed him a couple days later there was a DMV query on that unmarked car. Then asks for info that even if someone in the thread would have, would never post and does not trust the law (DA and Judges) in Pima Co. with application of said law.

[jeep7081]

saw reads but fails to see. States they should have pulled him over in his car, but missed how when LE followed him a couple days later there was a DMV query on that unmarked car. Saw that! Then asks for info that even if someone in the thread would have, would never post and does not trust the law (DA and Judges) in Pima Co. with application of said law.

Bold above. I agree. When you look at the case as a hole, it was justified.

[TRICKSTER]

The cops were wrong, the DA was wrong, the judge was wrong, the interpretation of the evidence was wrong, the reporting was wrong, you are wrong.
But......
"I'd love for you guys to educate me."

[SVT-40]

It's sad that you guys can't see the damage you're doing. I'm a private citizen. An average Joe. All I want is to find truth and make sure justice is upheld. ...and all you can do is insult me. I hope you guys find your way out of law enforcement before someone gets hurt.

So if you are looking for the "truth" what would convince you?

Define "justice"?

As a private citizen now more than ever there is so much info available to you on the net regarding the "truth" of what happened both before, during and after this incident.

I think the reason you are in conflict with some in this thread is based on perceptions.

As a cop one is totally immersed in thousands and thousands of investigations during your career. You garner a great understanding because of that exposure.

Because of their experiences cops are accustomed to all phases of the investigative process. From building a case which could take years depending on it's complexity. To obtaining search warrants, planning "raids" serving search warrants and dealing with evidence. Writing reports related to all phases of the investigation are a given. Nothing happens without it being documented on paper.

Now lay on top of that a deadly encounter where a suspect is killed and you add many many more layers of all sorts of interviews, reports, recordings, videos ect.

All of this information is scrutinized by the legal authority who is responsible for determining whether the use of force was legal.

Now because cops are accustomed to the "system" they tend to accept the results of these investigations because they know due to their experience just how detailed the investigations are.


You as a "non LEO" are not privy to all the years experiences, as well as the processes involved for the County attorney to decide whether the use of force was appropriate, and if the warrant was legally obtained and served...

This occurred and the governing legal authority found that the officers were justified in their use of force.

In reality how could you really have a good understanding?

So if you are seeking the "truth" as you said. you need to be a whole lot more specific.

If you need to know "why" Jose chose to arm himself as he did, and why he confronted the officers as he did. That information is, and will never be obtainable.

So if you can't have his story, what can you use to determine what happened?

The only source is the investigation which was exhaustive, and determined that the officers acted reasonably.

Remember that is the standard...

Officers must act "reasonably". Which means what would a reasonable officer given the exact same situation do?

Not anything else.



So it seems you are "in a loop" of sorts.

You distrust the investigation because you really don't know all of the detail that is involved.

You don't agree with the results because again you are not used to the legally black and white nature of the justice system.

You want the "truth", but will not accept the reports and statements which are the truthful stories of all of those who were involved.

I'm not being critical of you. I'm trying to point out just how different the approaches are between the LEO's on this board and you are when viewing this incident.

I think you are "FEELING" bad because of the outcome of the incident, and are letting those feelings intrude on what you want (justice and truth).

If you ask anyone here whether they "feel bad" because of what the outcome was, I'm sure all would agree that they "feel bad" because a man was killed and a family will have to deal with that.

However that is much different than determining if according to the laws of our country whether what happened was "reasonable" given the actions of all involved including Jose...

[Ron-Solo]

It's sad that you guys can't see the damage you're doing. I'm a private citizen. An average Joe. All I want is to find truth and make sure justice is upheld. ...and all you can do is insult me. I hope you guys find your way out of law enforcement before someone gets hurt.

It is sad that you come into the LAW ENFORCEMENT forum and attack LE when you don't have a clue what really happened. This isnt the place to come in and bash law enforcement.

You have no clue, but we understand.

[Samuelx]

I don't mind inexperienced/uneducated people, that's expected. Clueless people with attitudes (dumb sheep)(e.g. refusing to acknowledge their ignorance and somehow believing they are capable of accurately critiquing LE work) is another story - way too many of them around...

[retired]

guns4life, you and sawchain evidently did not read the rules for this specialty forum prior to posting in this thread. If you had both done so, you would have not made the comments that you did.

The rules are located in the sticky near the top of this forum. They are in addition to the rules for the rest of the site. This leo forum is a place for active and retired leos to relax, joke around with each other and to answer civil questions asked of them by the non leo members. It is not a place for non leos to post leo bashing comments or become argumentative with them.

Sawchain, if you wish to retain the privilege of posting and viewing in this forum, you will immediately stop your argumentative comments and your opinion that the judge and police were wrong in issuing the warrant and serving the warrant. Your opinion is just that; an opinion and since you do not have the legal expterise of the judge, nor the training of the SWAT team, it really does not hold any water; especially in this forum.

Guns4life, your leo bashing comments are unacceptable. They are unacceptable on this site and especially in a forum devoted to active and retired leos. If you have a difference of opinion concerning the rules of this particular forum, I would suggest you contact the owner of this forum (Kestryll) and make him aware of that opinion since he wrote the rules.

Big surprise...one hand holds the other

Sure, at some point the muzzle of the rifle may have been orientated in the direction of the officers...possible after the 15th shot, 20th shot, 3rd shot? Of course, having never been shot to death I cannot tell you whether or not my rifle would could have positions while I was being riddled with bullets.

Sawchain, the last part of one of your posts is also unacceptable:

...I hope you guys find your way out of law enforcement before someone gets hurt.

If you continue to post comments like this in the future, your stay in this particular forum will be short.

This thread has run its course.