Pima Co DA clears PCSD Entry Team

[Sniper3142]

Yeah, becasue LE and the DA's office get along so well together...

Yeah...

Because the DAs office never decides to not file charges on a LEO for illegal AW possession (saying the LAW is to complicated or some such stuff).

And bribery, fraud, theft, and other crimes regular citizens are routinely charged with are never not pursued when a LEO is the subject.



BTW, I think this particular case was probably correctly decided.

[sawchain]

Subsequent to the shooting, PCSD released helmet cam video, transcripts and hundreds of pages of supporting documents, see story here. It begins to look more and more like a lawful use of lethal force. Even if the decedent was a good guy, there was a passage of minutes between knock / notice, entry, and shots fired, and he was arguably lying in wait, apparently, for the officers to enter. None of those seem to be the actions of someone roused out of a sound sleep by the door coming in and arming himself as he sprang out of bed not knowing who was there.

That several minutes passed between knock and shots fired is not correct. The video clearly shows that this is not the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3F81oOwqwg

Watch the video linked above. They arrive at the house at 20 seconds. The siren is activated at 24 seconds. The first officer gets to the door at 32 seconds. Shots are fired at 60 seconds.

[TRICKSTER]

Yeah...

Because the DAs office never decides to not file charges on a LEO for illegal AW possession (saying the LAW is to complicated or some such stuff).

And bribery, fraud, theft, and other crimes regular citizens are routinely charged with are never not pursued when a LEO is the subject.



BTW, I think this particular case was probably correctly decided.

DA's charge cases that they think that they can win. As far as LEO's not being charged, many times some type of deal is made in lieu of charges being filed because the DA feels that they can't get a conviction. The same thing is done in many bribery, fraud and theft cases involving "regular citizens".

[SVT-40]

It should not be the DA's prerogative to bring a case. The case should be brought automatically so a jury can decide. The DA has the power to effectively acquit someone by not even bringing a case.

I'm open to the idea that I am completely mistaken. In fact, if I am mistaken, I'd love for you guys to educate me.

In order to have a criminal trial charges must be brought by the appropriate agency, which in this case is the DA's office.

In order for the DA to file charges an investigation must prove a crime occurred.


In any investigation the elements of an alleged crime must be proven. Period, no emotion just facts.

So having that in mind, just what were the elements of any crime committed by the officers?





The officers were serving a lawfully obtained warrant.

The officers properly identified themselves and were wearing police uniforms.

The officers complied with the knock and notice requirements of the law.

Once entry had been made the officers were immediately confronted by a armed individual, who presented a deadly threat to them by pointing a rifle at them.

The officers lawfully defended themselves.


So, as I asked above Just what are the elements of any crime committed by the officers?

[fullrearview]

In order to have a criminal trial charges must be brought by the appropriate agency, which in this case is the DA's office.

In order for the DA to file charges an investigation must prove a crime occurred.


In any investigation the elements of an alleged crime must be proven. Period, no emotion just facts.

So having that in mind, just what were the elements of any crime committed by the officers?





The officers were serving a lawfully obtained warrant.

The officers properly identified themselves and were wearing police uniforms.

The officers complied with the knock and notice requirements of the law.

Once entry had been made the officers were immediately confronted by a armed individual, who presented a deadly threat to them by pointing a rifle at them.

The officers lawfully defended themselves.


So, as I asked above Just what are the elements of any crime committed by the officers?

He was a former Marine... Some people just can't see past that. It's kinda funny to see... Somehow, we give our service members MUCH more benefit of the doubt, even when facts are presented, but a cop... Dirty no matter what his/her past or the facts show... There is always some excuse or conspiracy to "cover up" the truth. Fact is, there are bad people in all walks of life, and I will say from experience, I met a lot more douchers in the military that I have in LE. Obviously, the screening process is not perfect, but it sure is better than the military's.

Like you said... Look at the facts without emotion.

Now as for policy faults... Maybe, but that's a different discussion, and unfortunately, I don't think it can stay on topic.

[john.t.singh]

I liked what Massad Ayoob said. It made a lot of sense. Originally I was pretty outraged but after reading his article, it made me reconsider...

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2011/06/05/reading-evidentiary-videos-point-1/

[Ron-Solo]

[Falconis]

and I can show you some news articles that were far from accurate. Never did get a retraction or an apology. One time, a correction though.

[lear60man]

When this story first hit I was all against the Swat team and their cover up of facts. I still think they handled the aftermath poorly. But on face value, it looked like the SWAT guys were baddies for shooting a former Marine in bed while dreaming about reading the bible.

BUT ......then I read the Search Warrant and the years of investigation leading up to the search. Guilt by association my a**. He was up to his ears guilty. Every member of their little family owned an average of $60,000 in vehicles each, no jobs, collecting welfare, drug trafficking convictions, bla bla bla.

The scary part of the warrant application was when the applicant talks about how their undercover cars was spotted by the Marine and followed for miles. A few days later a license plate trace was done.....by someone in the DMV!

Like others I was skeptical especially when only BS was found in the home. But after reading about how long this investigation has been going on, its obvious this clown wasn't completely stupid. Just elusive.

Search Warrant below. Its a good read.

http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20Document0582_000.pdf

[fullrearview]

When this story first hit I was all against the Swat team and their cover up of facts. I still think they handled the aftermath poorly. But on face value, it looked like the SWAT guys were baddies for shooting a former Marine in bed while dreaming about reading the bible.

BUT ......then I read the Search Warrant and the years of investigation leading up to the search. Guilt by association my a**. He was up to his ears guilty. Every member of their little family owned an average of $60,000 in vehicles each, no jobs, collecting welfare, drug trafficking convictions, bla bla bla.

The scary part of the warrant application was when the applicant talks about how their undercover cars was spotted by the Marine and followed for miles. A few days later a license plate trace was done.....by someone in the DMV!

Like others I was skeptical especially when only BS was found in the home. But after reading about how long this investigation has been going on, its obvious this clown wasn't completely stupid. Just elusive.

Search Warrant below. Its a good read.


http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20...nt0582_000.pdf

Good post, and thing you for actually reading further into things. As you can see, most here do not. They take music videos and media sensationalizations as gospel. I doubt we will hear the outcome of the other associated cases from the media either.

[Anchors]

This isn't really a reflection on the officers, but more so politicians and judges.
Blaming the officers would be like blaming your average infantry guy if you're a war protester.

I don't agree with SWAT team bursting in even to serve a drug warrant.

I've seen footage of similar situations hundreds of times where they surrounded the building and had a "stand-off" type situation and communicated through megaphone for the subject to come out.

Stand-off > raid.

He probably did do something that warranted the use of deadly force. I'm not questioning that or even the officers use of it really. I'm questions the way the system is set up to serve warrants and giving someone 15 seconds to comply or get raided.
I don't care if he flushed all the drugs in the world down the drain (by the way, none were found in the home). I believe that "shock and awe" procedure violates the Fourth Amendment even with a valid warrant.
But that is personal opinion on the way the law has been written and interpreted and cops don't make the rules, they just enforce and follow them.

If I was on a jury, I probably would have found the officers NOT GUILTY as well.

I'm just curious as to why a guy would try to fight ten armored and armed SWAT team members unless they were doing suicide by cop. How can one guy hope to win in that situation (even a criminal)?

It should not be the DA's prerogative to bring a case. The case should be brought automatically so a jury can decide. The DA has the power to effectively acquit someone by not even bringing a case.

I'm open to the idea that I am completely mistaken. In fact, if I am mistaken, I'd love for you guys to educate me.

Outside of this case, this is a very important point.

I agree. DAs are extremely powerful. More than many people realize. Some could argue that they are just as powerful as judges in certain courts.
The points of trial and investigation are to determine guilt though. If a DA doesn't see enough evidence to warrant trial, that is actually a good thing (aka do you want to pay for a trial when you're innocent for an AW charge or would you rather have the DA drop it for you?)
However, when public officials are involved, they are held to a higher standard. So maybe in high profile cases like this, a trial should be automatic, even if just a formality where any judge/juror would easily agree with the public official's actions.

That several minutes passed between knock and shots fired is not correct. The video clearly shows that this is not the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3F81oOwqwg

Watch the video linked above. They arrive at the house at 20 seconds. The siren is activated at 24 seconds. The first officer gets to the door at 32 seconds. Shots are fired at 60 seconds.

The only action I take issue with (aside from the way the warrant was served, but that is the system's fault. Not the officers) are some of the officers wildly firing into the house over their coworkers. That seems patently unsafe, especially with a woman and child in the house.
It seems safer for the four or so officers already firing to continue to fire than have those few jumping over their shoulders to fire.
Seems dangerous for the officers too in my opinion, as one of them could easily be caught in the line of fire coming from the rear.
Most of the raids I've seen footage of (military and police) didn't look like this one.

Search Warrant below. Its a good read.

http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20...nt0582_000.pdf

Nice! Thanks for the link man.

[fullrearview]

This isn't really a reflection on the officers, but more so politicians and judges.
Blaming the officers would be like blaming your average infantry guy if you're a war protester.

I don't agree with SWAT team bursting in even to serve a drug warrant.


I agree to a point... Based off the search warrant and Jose's military training, I can see why the would want to enter.


I've seen footage of similar situations hundreds of times where they surrounded the building and had a "stand-off" type situation and communicated through megaphone for the subject to come out.

Stand-off > raid.

Most could work this way.

He probably did do something that warranted the use of deadly force. I'm not questioning that or even the officers use of it really. I'm questions the way the system is set up to serve warrants and giving someone 15 seconds to comply or get raided.
I don't care if he flushed all the drugs in the world down the drain (by the way, none were found in the home). I believe that "shock and awe" procedure violates the Fourth Amendment even with a valid warrant.
But that is personal opinion on the way the law has been written and interpreted and cops don't make the rules, they just enforce and follow them.

If I was on a jury, I probably would have found the officers NOT GUILTY as well.



I'm just curious as to why a guy would try to fight ten armored and armed SWAT team members unless they were doing suicide by cop. How can one guy hope to win in that situation (even a criminal)?

Based off of what I have seen, I have no clue what he was thinking... Maybe he knew he was going down for some serious time, and thought a suicide by cop would benefit his family being a former marine and all... Speculation, but who knows!

Outside of this case, this is a very important point.

I agree. DAs are extremely powerful. More than many people realize. Some could argue that they are just as powerful as judges in certain courts.
The points of trial and investigation are to determine guilt though. If a DA doesn't see enough evidence to warrant trial, that is actually a good thing (aka do you want to pay for a trial when you're innocent for an AW charge or would you rather have the DA drop it for you?)
However, when public officials are involved, they are held to a higher standard. So maybe in high profile cases like this, a trial should be automatic, even if just a formality where any judge/juror would easily agree with the public official's actions.


They do have a lot of power, but think about Corpus delicti... If The DA can't find a crime, he can't pursue charges. Just a thought.

The only action I take issue with (aside from the way the warrant was served, but that is the system's fault. Not the officers) are some of the officers wildly firing into the house over their coworkers. That seems patently unsafe, especially with a woman and child in the house.
It seems safer for the four or so officers already firing to continue to fire than have those few jumping over their shoulders to fire.
Seems dangerous for the officers too in my opinion, as one of them could easily be caught in the line of fire coming from the rear.
Most of the raids I've seen footage of (military and police) didn't look like this one.

While I think their tactics and stack were sloppy up until the lead started flying, that guy who ran up did have a good line of fire... From the video, it looks like he just pulling the trigger with a prayer, shooting around the door frame, but when you look at photographs, it makes a whole lot more sense. He was actually exposed quite a bit in the door way, and was square with the hallway Jose was in.



Nice! Thanks for the link man.

In bold.

[Anchors]

Thanks for the responses! I agree with most of what you said.

As for the DAs, they have the power to effectively dismiss charges and grant immunity.
That is pretty powerful.

Off-topic (well, on-topic actually):

An interesting tidbit from the search warrant's list of inclusive items:

9. Firearms, and ammunition and/or paperwork to show the purchase of firearms and ammunition

Why would they search for legally owned firearms? I don't see any probable cause that shows they have reason to believe he is in arms trafficking or anything of that sort.

That confused me.

[Noah3683]

Well the warrant shows quite a few previous arrests (coviction status unknown) and a known conviction for carrying a concealed weapon which would have me believe he was no longer able to possess firearms legally

[SVT-40]

Why would they search for legally owned firearms? I don't see any probable cause that shows they have reason to believe he is in arms trafficking or anything of that sort.

That confused me.

Their reason probably was to check if he had been a "straw purchaser" of weapons. If they had found receipts for numerous firearms purchases, and then found the weapons in the possession of a prohibited friend or relative they would have the evidence needed to prosecute.

You don't need "probable cause" to list things you are looking for in a search warrant.