AW Registration Guide **3/18/2021 update: Registration may re-open soon**

[CandG]

question someone asked me regarding joint registration..


Guy got his firearm rights back via 17B reduction and dismissal from a conviction after 2017. His wife has owned an ar for years and has always kept it inaccessible to him.

Wife has registered AR under her name and Husband who now has his firearm rights back wants to jointly register. you think any issues?

Wow, just when you think you've heard every scenario.... That's a new one to me.

If it were me, I would assume the wife can register no problem as the primary, with him as the secondary. As long as he is not currently prohibited, AND the weapon did not go through any sort of a transfer after 2016, there shouldn't be any flags raised.

But this is one of those things it might be worth consulting with a real attorney about (which I am not)

[CandG]

Thanks for the explanation, Discogodfather.

Even if he buys a cheap upper tonight, he'd have to pay overnight or 2-day shipping to get it to his address. Then he'd have to register it within the next 2-3 days. Since he's registered his first two ARs, do they need to remain as functional AWs until "the letter" arrives?

Then what about some of us that decide to separate our uppers from our lowers after 6/30/18 until the letter is in hand?

Do they NEED to remain assembled until the letter arrives? No. But if they can be, then it makes it a lot easier to explain everything if they pay you a visit.

Technically, they only needed to be complete at the time of registration. But as Disco pointed out, that's hard to prove when you register more guns simultaneously than you have uppers for.

Ordering an upper online, especially from PSA, is out of the question at this point, you won't get it in time. You'll probably need to find somewhere local that has one. This is why procrastinating until literally the last minute was a bad strategy.

[caliguy93]

Wow, just when you think you've heard every scenario.... That's a new one to me.

If it were me, I would assume the wife can register no problem as the primary, with him as the secondary. As long as he is not currently prohibited, AND the weapon did not go through any sort of a transfer after 2016, there shouldn't be any flags raised.

But this is one of those things it might be worth consulting with a real attorney about (which I am not)

would you laugh if I told you he is an attorney!? lol (yes, there are ways someone can become an attorney with a criminal record)

working it through we both concluded he had legal plausible deniability of any wrongdoing, but thought he might be subject to rejection. he has never illegally possessed a firearm, and does not now.

the application asks for a date acquired then forces you to select family member as from who when registering as a joint applicant. He assumes that the only correct date acquired is the date his wife acquired the rifle and he has no other choice but to put family member under the "acquired from" box.

He was worried about agreeing under penalty of purgery that the information is correct, but concluded that its not illegal because to the best of his knowledge he is only filling out the form at their direction of putting family member and put the date his wife acquired the firearm is a true statement.

he is then worried about when they perform an eligibility check on him, they will see he was previously ineligible to own or possess firearms and determine he was not eligible to register as he was not eligible to register before 2017.

On the other end, unlike primary registration, joint registration is designed to protect future possession of spouses, not retain previous ownership and possession and should therefore not encounter a rejection.

otherwise, a couple who was not married in 2016 but got married in 2017 would not be edible to jointly register, same with a child who turns 18 during the registration period.

[Discogodfather]

Then what about some of us that decide to separate our uppers from our lowers after 6/30/18 until the letter is in hand?

After the letter is in hand I don't see anywhere that you need to keep it functional. You can disassemble if you want. Only be aware it's still an AW, and it requires all the same storage and transport requirements that a completed functioning rifle has. Do not take the BB off, of course, unless you are repairing or replacing it.

I think cocked is right about the time frame on an upper shipment, cutting it awfully close. What about borrowing one from a friend? As long as they aren't in the reg process themselves or have the letter in hand already or it's a non-aw, I don't see why you couldn't reg like that. It's a bit of a ridiculous situation and not exactly the best choice, but how could it be illegal?

[CandG]

would you laugh if I told you he is an attorney!? lol (yes, there are ways someone can become an attorney with a criminal record)

working it through we both concluded he had legal plausible deniability of any wrongdoing, but thought he might be subject to rejection. he has never illegally possessed a firearm, and does not now.

the application asks for a date acquired then forces you to select family member as from who when registering as a joint applicant. He assumes that the only correct date acquired is the date his wife acquired the rifle and he has no other choice but to put family member under the "acquired from" box.

He was worried about agreeing under penalty of purgery that the information is correct, but concluded that its not illegal because to the best of his knowledge he is only filling out the form at their direction of putting family member and put the date his wife acquired the firearm is a true statement.

he is then worried about when they perform an eligibility check on him, they will see he was previously ineligible to own or possess firearms and determine he was not eligible to register as he was not eligible to register before 2017.

On the other end, unlike primary registration, joint registration is designed to protect future possession of spouses, not retain previous ownership and possession and should therefore not encounter a rejection.

otherwise, a couple who was not married in 2016 but got married in 2017 would not be edible to jointly register, same with a child who turns 18 during the registration period.

Reminds me of Breaking Bad... What you need is a "criminal" attorney

I think I agree with that assessment, but again, IANAL

[caliguy93]

Reminds me of Breaking Bad... What you need is a "criminal" attorney

I think I agree with that assessment, but again, IANAL

Wanna laugh again? Lol

[blahblah]

what can I do to my currently legal ar15 to make it not a firearm, and store the components legally?

If i pull the upper and lower apart and remove the BCG and bag them will that make it legal to store?
or am I going to need to pull the trigger group and buffer tube.

Check on this thread just before your post.... https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...postcount=2589

[blahblah]

Would it be a bad idea to register my lowers with the uppers from the complete rifles mentioned above?

But we are out of time. Consider buying a cheap [upper] and registering or keep it disassembled or go non-AW with it.

Multiple people also apparently just switched uppers between lowers, took pictures, and registered all the rifles together. Not saying it's good legal advice, but apparently in practice it's feasible.

It was mentioned before here that making slight changes to the features on the upper between photos would make it less likely the reviewers notice anything worth digging into it.

[Junkie]

If it's a plane jane upper I wouldn't be too worried about it. Plenty of people have multiple uppers that look nearly identical.

[five.five-six]

Ordering an upper online, especially from PSA, is out of the question at this point, you won't get it in time. You'll probably need to find somewhere local that has one. This is why procrastinating until literally the last minute was a bad strategy.

I started a little over a month ago and it was nice to be pinched for time.

[eltee]

I was of the impression that Mini-14 rifles with a folding stock were not Cali legal? Perhaps due to the OAL with the stock folded?

I believe his was pinned in the open position so it never really folded. I noticed that when you register as a BB firearm this may apply and perhaps he can unpin the stock:

[IMATAWORK]

If I built an AR-10 from an 80% lower in 2016 and have a serial number from the DOJ engraved and it also says "Model: AR-10" am I going to get rejected if I enter AR-10 in the "model number" field? Has anyone successfully registered their self-built AR-10 with AR-10 as the model number? I remember reading that this is a no-no.

[CandG]

If I built an AR-10 from an 80% lower in 2016 and have a serial number from the DOJ engraved and it also says "Model: AR-10" am I going to get rejected if I enter AR-10 in the "model number" field? Has anyone successfully registered their self-built AR-10 with AR-10 as the model number? I remember reading that this is a no-no.

You *should* be ok, since AR-10's are only "banned by name" if they are also made by Armalite.

DOJ already knows your model is "AR-10", because presumably that's what you wrote on your serial number application. And they approved that, so... hopefully you're in the clear.

To avoid the issue altogether, when I requested my serials and engraved my lowers, I called all mine "XX15", "XX10", etc.

[stormtrooperx]

Multiple people also apparently just switched uppers between lowers, took pictures, and registered all the rifles together. Not saying it's good legal advice, but apparently in practice it's feasible.

It was mentioned before here that making slight changes to the features on the upper between photos would make it less likely the reviewers notice anything worth digging into it.

Makes you wonder, if someone registers several AR's with identical-looking uppers, than July 1 rolls around and he wants to remain compliant so he removes (maybe even sells his uppers), and the DOJ visits saying we think you only had a single upper, what can he do? The regs only require that the firearms were in functioning BBAW mode at some point prior to Jan 1 2017, and perhaps at the instant you were taking photos and submitting registration on the website, but how do you prove that to agents at your door?

Probably being over-cautious, but it seems like it would be prudent to not change / modify your uppers in any way, until you get your letters in the mail. After July 1, keep them in a separate locked container from lowers, in the exact same configuration as when you took the photos maybe.

[INCINR8]

Trying to Reg, Web site keeps crashing...